154 - Sean Moran's Healing Journey from Chronic Fatigue

Join us as we hear from Sean Moran, who opens up about his relentless battle with chronic fatigue syndrome since 2012. Dive deep into Sean's world of endless trials ranging from vitamin C intravenous therapy to unconventional methods like acupuncture and homeopathy. His story is one of unwavering hope and resilience, steering him through years of hardship as he sought to regain some semblance of normal life and purpose against the backdrop of a little-understood condition.

Unravel the layers of Sean's recovery journey as he shares pivotal moments like discovering mold exposure and persistent infections, turning points that illuminated his path to better health. We explore the nuanced process of detoxification and the critical need for a personalized approach to treatment. Sean's experiences underscore the importance of patience and perseverance, drawing parallels to the evolving landscape of chronic illness treatment, especially in a post-COVID world.

Sean's narrative extends beyond recovery, as he reflects on redefining personal dreams and using past adversities to impact others positively. From discussing the emotional complexity of grieving lost time to leveraging experiences for future contributions, his insights offer a beacon of hope and guidance. Join us for a compelling conversation that highlights the intricate dance of healing, motivation, and the power of personalized interventions in transforming one’s journey through chronic illness.

Sean's website: fatiguefarewell.com
Instagram: instagram.com/cfsfree @cfsfree

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Chapters

• 0:00 Journey to Recovery From Chronic Fatigue
• 9:43 Overcoming Chronic Illness Through Dedication
• 15:10 Understanding the Search for Recovery
• 18:25 Navigating Recovery From Chronic Illness
• 26:16 Declining Progress and Sudden Recovery
• 30:33 Uncovering Hidden Infections in Chronic Illness
• 36:07 A New Perspective on Recovery
• 40:09 Guidance and Hope in Recovery

Transcript

Jackie Baxter: 0:55

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Long Covid Podcast. I am delighted to be joined this morning by Sean Moran and we are going to be talking recovery, so one of my favourite topics. Sean's here to share his recovery story, so we're going to learn all about what worked for him and hopefully find some inspiration on a very grey morning here today. So a very warm welcome to the podcast today.

Jackie Baxter: 1:22

Thank you so much, jackie, it's lovely to be here, yeah, I'm delighted to have you here and to get stuck into this topic. So to start with, would you mind just saying a little bit about yourself and maybe what life was like before you got sick?

Sean Moran: 1:41

Yeah, well, I'm going to have to rewind the clock probably 12 and a half years now A very long time now, jackie. But yeah, like, I eventually got diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome in I believe it was around April 2012. But I think there are some telltale signs that in the lead up to that, that things were sort of not quite right. You could say, um, I was sort of really the sort of person that was really vulnerable to colds and flus and picking up everything you know, like you'd get on the train and you'd come home and you'd end up with something a couple of days later and that had sort of lasted for several years. And then I can think back to maybe like the six month proceeding and I was working full time and I was actually saving up for a trip to Europe actually at the time, which I was really excited about.

Sean Moran: 2:33

I was in sort of my early 20s and I booked a one-way ticket and I remember getting really sick in like Christmas, a few months beforehand, and I was out for a couple of weeks and I just wasn't getting better. It sort of took a really long time, unlike, you know, your usual sort of five to seven days with a cold or flu or something took a good couple of weeks. And then in the lead up to it I was sort of coming good and then I'd sort of break down and come good. And then it got to about I was probably about six to eight weeks before I was meant to leave and I just completely crashed. And it got to a stage where I was going to work and the barristers that I was working alongside with at the time were sort of telling me, sean, you're okay, like you don't look really well, and I sort of was trying to push through and sort of like oh, no, I'm fine, I'm fine.

Sean Moran: 3:20

But eventually it got to that stage where I just couldn't keep pushing and it went to that sort of degree where I just completely fell in a heap and that looked like just the traditional sort of CFS symptoms. And, yeah, at that point I was unable to work and I was meant to leave to europe in a few weeks time, and so I did what most people in this situation do, and that's grasp at anything and everything that is out there, right? So, um, one of the first things I heard about was vitamin c intravenous therapy and ozone therapy, and I, you know, did some research into it but was very much of the view well, I've got to do anything I possibly can to get on this plane. So, very quickly, I invested most of my savings into trying to get well quickly and as quickly as possible, and got hooked up to various drips and saw so much blood and had blood put back in me and had all sorts of different interventions and glutathione injections and everything and anything you could think of, and I didn't come good for anyone that's still wondering and I didn't end up going on the trip. I didn't come good for anyone that's still wondering and I didn't end up going on the trip and at that point I was super sick and was hoping that, you know, within a couple of months I would come good the only person that I'd actually heard of at the time. This was really pre-social media that we have now, where, you know, finding information online about this condition is really sort of quite easy. But back then, the only other person I'd ever heard of in the world that had CFS was an Australian rules footballer and he came good and he attributed it to I think it was some greens powder drink or something that made it sound really, really easy and I thought, great, I'm just going to get this greens powder drink and hook myself up to a few drips and I'll be right and life will be dandy again and this will just be, like you know, a few months in my life that I will have lost and whatever. Suffice to say that didn't happen. I probably wouldn't be here on this. Suffice to say that didn't happen. I probably wouldn't be here on this call with you otherwise.

Sean Moran: 5:43

But yeah, it sort of went on for many, many years after that, jackie, where I was looking for, I guess I hate to say the quick fix, but to a certain degree I sort of was, because I wasn't really informed about what was going on. So I tried acupuncture, I tried cupping emotional freedom technique, homeopathy, brain retraining, qigong, restorative yoga, chiropractic care, hypnotherapy, graded exercise therapy, cbt, bioresonance therapy, matrix, re-imprinting I don't know if there's anything else that I hadn't done but, um, but that was sort of the list over the um subsequent years where I just threw the kitchen sink and, in turn, obviously probably all my savings at the same time, because I really wasn't able to work throughout this period. But, um, yeah, that that sort of went on for many, many years and I was trying, like you know, a few years after I initially got diagnosed, to get back into some sort of part-time work and maintain some purpose, because I went from being a full-time employee to a full-time patient and I think we all know what that looks like. You're spending all your spare time trying to dig yourself out of a hole because, um, your conventional doctors that you speak to sort of don't really have answers for you and it's a case of, well, most people come good eventually, but we don't know when and how, and just hang in there and so, yeah, so over those years I sort of just tried to research everything and everything about the condition and everything that sort of I could do to sort of just tried to research everything and everything about the condition and and everything that sort of I could do to sort of help myself. And in the end I got back to semi-functioning after probably five years actually, probably six, come to think of it and started working part-time once more and was still having like lots of different issues and just hadn't regained my energy and I definitely couldn't work full-time, um, definitely couldn't really play sport or anything like that. So I was still quite limited, still had a lot of cognitive difficulties and all of that sort of stuff.

Sean Moran: 7:51

And, um, yeah, it was only probably after the beginning of COVID actually, when it was sort of a bit of a turning point for me, because I was then working remotely at the time and wasn't going into the office and, unbeknownst to me, I found out later on that my split system that I was sitting underneath was completely riddled with mould and yeah, so I was breathing that in like day in, day out for goodness knows how many hours, because it was in melbourne, well, in victoria, australia's winter at the time, and so that it was constantly on. I was constantly breathing this thing and I went from like being, you know, semi-functional to okay, like I feel like I've just completely relapsed and crashed into a complete heap. So like I was, I remember I tried to go for a walk with my dad, who's 30 years older than me, and he was powering along and I literally couldn't keep up, like I was struggling so badly to walk and I was like, wow, I'm back here. You know I haven't been here in a handful of years now, but this is quite bad and it really sort of got me on the path of okay. Mold is a bit of an issue for me. I'm going to have to look into this a little bit more. And then, alongside some other research where I started learning about sort of different toxins and different chemicals and heavy metals, it sort of spurred me on at the time to get some testing done. And so I did some testing with sort of functional lab testing, so looking at different heavy metals and mycotoxins, and tested really positive to well quite high to both mercury and lead and also to different mycotoxins as well. So I knew at that point something was up.

Sean Moran: 9:44

I then also was developing all these sinus issues which I've never had my whole life. I had a close friend of mine who'd had sinus issues and I had no idea what that would feel like or what that was. I sort of thought, gee, it can't be that bad right. But it was actually really debilitating and I was having a lot of cognitive issues and a lot of fatigue and a lot of hormonal issues. And I started learning about different infections in the basically in the skull really whether you're looking at the mouth or you're looking at the sinuses and found out through a test that I actually had mark-ons, which is like a staph infection which colonizes the sinuses, which is very prevalent in people that have been exposed to mold or have had Lyme disease. And so at that point, finally, for the first time in eight to nine years, I had a picture.

Sean Moran: 10:33

I had a, an idea of probably why I was feeling the way I was feeling, as opposed to that sort of scattergun approach where it was. I'm going to try this, I'm going to try this and hope that something works. I sort of finally had a bit of a pathway and after such time, I started working with a naturopath who was well versed in detoxification and I started the process of detoxifying from all these toxins and eventually was able to look at my mouth, found out I had a dental infection and eventually got that cleared. And after a couple of years of sort of very structured and dedicated detoxification, I was finally able to start removing those toxins and those infections that were sort of, you know, hampering my mitochondria from functioning and I started making that exponential progress that most of us have, where you have those ups and downs and you start feeling better and then you dip a little bit and you feel better. But gradually you're starting to trend up.

Sean Moran: 11:34

And, yeah, after about 18, I'd say to 20 months, jackie, it's when I finally started to feel like I'd finally come out of the grave and I started being able to do things that I just hadn't done in, you know, 10 years, and that was actually going for runs and start going back to the gym on a regular basis and working full time and just feeling that, wow, I haven't felt like this since my early 20s. And it was such a remarkable feeling because for so many years you don't think that you're ever going to get that back and you sort of forget what that even feels like after a while to feel normal and feel well again. So yeah, so it was probably about two years ago now where things finally clicked and I started feeling good and getting back into normal life again. But yeah, it was quite the journey.

Jackie Baxter: 12:18

It was quite the journey again, but, um, yeah, it was quite the journey. It was quite the journey, yeah, and I think that's a really good point you just made. I mean, you know I was, I was ill for three and a bit years, um, your project trajectory obviously was was longer than that. But you know, like it's amazing how quickly you forget what it feels like to feel normal. And you know, you, you take on this identity of being ill, because that's that's who you are now, certainly how you feel who you are now and um, yeah, it is. It is very difficult to kind of remember what it feels like to feel normal and um, and I think you know that's why it makes it quite difficult sometimes to gauge progress as well, because we forget that actually normal life has its ups and downs anyway, um, and then coming out at the end, it's this kind of like I feel like I have more energy now than I ever did before, and I think that's probably true because I'm probably healthier than I was before. But I think also some of that is kind of just, you know this, this memory of the three years where I didn't have that energy, where I constantly felt awful, um, so, yeah, that's a really interesting point, um, but um, yeah, I mean it's interesting.

Jackie Baxter: 13:26

You know, I think people, people who've, you know, become ill more recently. You know, since, since COVID, um would probably say there isn't any information available. You know, I can't find information. It's really difficult to get that information about what's going on, and I think I suppose it's it's that comparison to say 12 years ago, where it was so much harder, um, that that actually it does feel like there's a lot now for someone like yourself who was ill much, much longer ago, um, and, and how much more difficult that must have been then.

Jackie Baxter: 14:04

Um, there's that kind of like strength in numbers thing going on at the moment, I think, um, which is a horrible, horrible thing, but it does make it easier, I suppose, in some ways, to find that information. Um, but yeah, it doesn't doesn't mean it's easy now, I suppose. But yeah, so I mean I'd love to dive a little bit into everything that you just said, because you said that you'd got back to that kind of sort of 50% functionality-ish and I thought, gosh, I haven't even heard of some of those. That's amazing that you even found them. What was it that kind of helped you get to that sort of 50% mark? Were there any kind of like big wins, or yeah, what was that looking like?

Sean Moran: 14:52

It's a really good question. Like, I do think that potentially some of the intravenous therapy that I did and the ozone therapy had some had some merit. Um, I think everything probably to a certain degree, maybe helped a little bit or contributed to a certain degree. It's really hard to gauge what didn't, what didn't, um, to be honest, but you try different things for different periods of time and you have different expectations and whatnot. But I'm not actually entirely sure, if I'm completely honest with you, if there was anything in particular.

Sean Moran: 15:30

But yeah, when you've got so much going on all at once, it's sometimes difficult and, like you said, it can be a little bit subjective sometimes to measure your progress and especially when, sometimes you know, when we're seeking to try and get back to where we were, sometimes we don't necessarily appreciate the progress that we've made during that period as well. So I know with me I was probably one of those people who were seeking and striving to get back to that really high functioning level again, and so I probably wasn't satisfied with feeling 50%. I really wanted to get back to that really high functioning level again, and so I probably wasn't satisfied with feeling 50%. I really wanted to get back to normal again. So it was quite hard to probably work out what that was, because it was always. There had to be something more that I hadn't been doing at that point to get better.

Jackie Baxter: 16:15

Yeah, totally, and I remember this feeling as well. You know, it was almost like the more progress you made, the more frustrating it was that you weren't at the end game, rather than, you know, appreciating that. You know 50 percent, for example, or wherever it is that you were. So I hear you, I really do, yeah, and I suppose it's difficult as well. You know a lot of people and you took this approach as well, of, you know, trying everything, I'll try anything. You know I'm so desperate to have my life back, completely understandably, that you're literally like I'll do that, I'll do that, I'll do that, I'll do that. So it's actually it's very difficult sometimes to know exactly what it was that helped, because you don't want to try one thing at a time, because we ain't got time for that.

Sean Moran: 17:01

Like Because you don't want to try one thing at a time, because we ain't got time for that. Like you have a plate to catch. Yeah, that's right.

Jackie Baxter: 17:04

Oh, yeah, yeah. But yeah, this kind of the 50% back. You know where you noticed that mould and started this kind of detoxification process. Can you talk a little bit more about that, Because that sounds really interesting? What did that kind of involve?

Sean Moran: 17:22

Yeah, well, come to think of it before I even moved to the house where I found out where it was. In my previous residence I actually had telltale signs of mold issues because I was having a lot of issues at night when I was breathing and sleeping and I was having a lot of snoring and whatnot. And as soon as I bought an air purifier that was recommended to me, that ceased immediately and not long before I left I realized there had been a leak in the roof in the room that I was sleeping in and there was mold in there. And so I sort of at the time I didn't appreciate really apart from maybe like the breathing side of things how insidious it is and how detrimental it is to your health. And so it was only once I actually engaged a building biologist who had the knowledge of the intersection between environmental toxins and health that I actually engaged a building biologist who had the knowledge of the intersection between environmental toxins and health that I actually learned about how significant it is, and thankfully I had a good GP at the time who was quite integrative and actually brought that to my attention in the first instance. And so once that occurred, jackie, I realized, okay, there's something I need to do about this, and that's what sort of spurred me on to dig deeper. And I remember having to, you know, invest in these tests and thinking well, if testing is actually indicated here and it's relevant, I may as well just throw the kitchen sink at this, because I really just want to get better. And I thought I may as well find out what's going on here and if any of this is an issue and if it is, it is. If it's not, it's not. And so that's when that began.

Sean Moran: 18:57

And then it became a case of learning, I guess what was described to me as the art of detoxification and learning pretty quickly that if you do that on your own and in isolation, it can actually be really dangerous. And so, um, I I did try and diy that at times, especially at the beginning, and I didn't appreciate the importance of having, like, good drainage organs and having your liver capable of mobilizing all these toxins that have been stored in your body for potentially decades, having your kidneys working, having your bowels working, having your lymphatic system functioning well, having your cells ready to let go of things that it's been harboring for many, many years. And I basically tried to detoxify without having what some people describe as the drainage funnel actually open and ready to let this stuff go. And so I got really sick and it was at that point that I realised no, I need to engage the services of someone who knows what they're doing and can actually really guide me here and prepare me for this. Because, yeah, the levels of mercury and lead in particular were really really high. So when you're playing around with that stuff, it can actually be clearly quite detrimental if you're mobilizing those things into different organs. And so, yeah, I was really luckily lucky to work with a practitioner who worked really closely with Dr Christopher Shade, who's a very well-renowned scientist in America, who's actually the head of Quicksilver Scientific, and this practitioner learned a lot from him and basically put me on this path of starting to detox gently through my skin, opening up my drainage and detox pathways, and then eventually starting to bring in sort of binders and other methods of expelling these toxins.

Sean Moran: 20:53

But it's a slow and gentle process if you want to do it correctly. You know there there are different therapies, such as chelation therapy, which is traditionally being used. Some people, you know, do really well with that. For some people it's a little bit too much. So I took sort of the slower approach and it worked.

Sean Moran: 21:11

It just took a long time and I learned a lot of different things you know along the way, not purely just with mould, but also what mould can cause and the immunosuppression and how I end up, you know, developing a chronic sinus issue which, once I was able to recover from, was an absolute game changer. And again, had I not known about this, I would never have fully recovered. And it came. It came down to just peeling back all the layers, and that's what I see with these conditions, with CFS or long COVID. It's the allostatic load that's on the body, but there's so much going on and it's working out what's happening for you and being able to peel back those layers and essentially, having a nervous system eventually that's regulated and that is actually able to, you know, cope, which is very difficult to do when there's so many different things that are imposing on it yeah, absolutely it's.

Jackie Baxter: 22:54

It's that, um, you know you call it pieces of the puzzle, don't you? Or? Or you know whatever? Um, someone see, I said the sort of the onion skin, or you know whatever metaphor you want to use. Um, it doesn't seem to be for anybody that I've spoken to. One thing, um, you know that there may have been like one or two big things, but there's, there's lots of different pieces of that puzzle and you know, for you, this mold detoxification and all of that was a huge piece, but it wasn't the only thing, which is what's really fascinating.

Jackie Baxter: 23:31

But also, I loved what you said about doing it in the right way, because I think this is so true of so many different kind of strategies, techniques, treatments, modalities, again, whatever you want to call them. You know I mean, again, my own wheelhouse, breathing. You know people will go and try like Wim Hof, oh, it didn't work for me, breathing doesn't work for me and it's like well, like, of course it didn't work for me. Breathing doesn't work for me and it's like well, like of course it didn't, because it's Wim Hof and it's hugely up regulating. But you know people don't know that because you know they hear breathing, um, so it's. It's finding the right way of doing these things for different people and in this population, gentle, gentle, I think, has got to be the kind of starting point and and that is exactly what you found it.

Sean Moran: 24:13

It took time, but doing it gently and in that way that that didn't put extra stress on your body, because your body was stressed enough as it was right correct, correct, yeah, and I think it just goes back, jackie, to what you mentioned a moment ago, where we're so desperate to get better we've been sick for so long, we've lost so much, we've had so much stripped away from us we don't have plans, we can't look forward to the future. So you're in a position where you know you're looking back at your recent years and you know they're plagued with illness and they're plagued with missed opportunities and dreams that you haven't been able to achieve, opportunities and um and dreams that you haven't been able to achieve. And then you're looking at your current situation and you're symptomatic and you're dealing with all sorts of horrible symptoms, from cognitive, neurological, physical, the whole gamut. You're potentially in an environment where you're potentially not getting a lot of support or understanding from either the medical community or friends and family, who may not understand this. You may not have a community outside of your immediate community for support.

Sean Moran: 25:15

So for some people you're in a very isolated position and your future is so uncertain because you can't plan, for obvious reasons, and so people are just trying to latch onto anything to try and get better as quickly as they possibly can, and sometimes I think it's really natural to try and expedite that process for obvious reasons, like you couldn't judge anyone for a moment about that and sometimes it's just a reminder, particularly if you have a really good mentor, and I think that's so important sometimes to just remind you that you know, once you get on that right path, it will potentially take some time. You know, if you've been sick for many years, it's not something that will probably go away overnight. But if you start making steps and taking steps in the right direction and moving forward, you will come out eventually. It's just a matter of how long. You know. I think in the end yeah, I think you're right.

Jackie Baxter: 26:16

The end yeah, I think I think you're right. Um, there was a, a quote that I read the other day and I actually put it out on my social media because I thought it's so important, and it was something like don't look backwards, you're not going that way, um, and I thought that's so beautiful because, especially with the kind of up and down kind of trajectory that these types of illnesses tend to have, even when you find something that is helping you, it's still not a linear progression. You know, you, you may be a sort of going upwards, but in this kind of wiggly thing, and then maybe you have a dip, we have a plateau, or then you find another thing that helps and you maybe go up a bit, but then you have, you know, and it's, it's so frustrating and it's so difficult, I think, to see that you're making that progress and and so frustrating, um, and it's it's sort of remembering that you are always moving forward, even when it doesn't necessarily feel like it. And that was something that I struggled with because I felt like I was going backwards half of the time. But it's like, you know, even when you feel like you're going backwards, you're still learning, even if you're in that kind of dip.

Jackie Baxter: 27:16

But yeah, mentally it's so tough, I think. So, yeah, absolutely so. You found the things that helped initially, and then you found this detox sort of protocol. I don't know if that's the right word yeah.

Jackie Baxter: 27:33

Yeah, that sort of helped. And then you know you got on, you got on that bus and and that sort of was gradually helping over time, over time. What did that kind of final, sort of final climbing to the top of the mountain kind of bit look like that, that moment of recovery, or that period of sort of interval recovery? How did that look like for you?

Sean Moran: 27:54

yeah, I think with uh, with the detox of the heavy metals and the mold, it was sort of that exponential increase of energy and and function. But honestly it was sort of that exponential increase of energy and function but honestly it was dealing with the infections I had in my skull. So it was dealing with the sinusitis or the Marcon's infection that I had and I tried various therapies, jackie, because it's quite a difficult sort of infection or colonisation to treat. It's quite resistant and thereby it's named Marcon. It's resistant, this type of staph, to various bacteria and there's various different treatments, from pharmaceutical antibiotics and nasal sprays and nebulising and steam inhalation. There's so many different things out there and I tried almost everything with no success. And then I found a protocol um that a practitioner in america had devised because he was a previous sufferer of this and lyme disease and I actually was able to finally rid myself of this uh infection after. It was a 30-day protocol um and I finally did it and having that gone from my head was just the amount of mental clarity that I was able to establish again and have was just amazing. It was like my brain just started to switch on again for the first time in you know, nine or so years, ten years, it was just remarkable.

Sean Moran: 29:19

And then, I think I had a dental infection at one point and I had one of my teeth removed. And honestly, like I keep you know, the next day I woke up and I just had this extra amount of energy, physically and also cognitively, which I hadn't had. And it was just, it felt like the more I just kept, you know, peeling back those layers and just removing these things that were just obviously compromising my immune system, I just felt better and better and better and it was sort of like, I guess, my immune system probably rewarding me and saying thank you, like you've had all this and I've had so much to deal with for the last 10 years and you're finally like removing it for me. Thank you so much, here's some energy for you. So I sort of felt like that was the turning point, like the detox was such a. It was a slow and steady sort of progress, but removing infections that were sort of lingering for such a long time gave that real, immediate and noticeable sort of shift. Um, so, yeah, I found that really profound.

Sean Moran: 30:48

And so when I see people who are suffering from symptoms and they've tried all these different modalities and different therapies and whatnot.

Sean Moran: 31:00

I look at chronic infections and I think that's potentially a piece that's missing in their puzzle and particularly looking at the skull.

Sean Moran: 31:09

A lot of people rightfully so look at viruses and different bacteria, whether it's SIBO or typical viruses, parasitic infections, fungal infections, all those sorts of things which is so important. But I think sometimes the hidden piece is looking at infections in the skull, because even things like jaw cavitations can be very, very detrimental to people and disruptive, and so looking at all those things in totality, I think just give the full picture and can really help set that roadmap for people. So, instead of sort of, you know, being in the dark and just sort of wondering, hoping and trying to grasp at the next thing, you've got a clear pathway and I think that's in my experience and what I've learned and what I see with other people it's the most efficient way to sort of regain health. It's knowing what those blockages are and then, you know, going at them in a really systematic and structured way and trying to peel those layers back, and I think, yeah, that's really what is fundamental for many, many people.

Jackie Baxter: 32:19

Yeah, I'm like, it's kind of like, the more you know, isn't it? I mean, I think you know we can definitely, I think, fall into the trap of like test after test, after test after test, which actually can sometimes be detrimental. So I's it's, maybe it's targeting the right ones to get an idea. Oh okay, there's something here. Let's dive a little deeper into that um, rather than the sort of, I suppose, like you tried initially with the, with the treatments, the sort of scattergun um everything approach, because you know it's. It sort of feels like that sort of treasure hunt where you can't find it, and the more you know, the more you can't find it, the more frantic you get.

Jackie Baxter: 32:56

Um, I like it, there must be, there must be something, there must be something um, and then that can kind of guide you um. But I suppose it kind of demonstrates, doesn't it, how connected everything is. That for you you had these um, you know the, the, the mold and the, the skull and and things, um, whereas a lot of other people maybe don't um, but all of these things are so connected and it's almost like we've got to get out of the way of our body and let it do its thing, and sometimes that's like detox. Sometimes it it's yeah, removing you know cavities or you know whatever that is. Yeah, that's amazing, yeah.

Sean Moran: 33:39

Yeah, no, and I think that's the lesson that I've learned, jackie, throughout this whole process. And obviously, yeah, seeing clients and looking at everything online and you know, through the different channels, that the wonderful resources that you put out and other people put out and it really is looking at what the individual needs and tailoring what they need and looking at what's potentially indicated for them, like tuning into their unique symptoms, you know, and going away from the label of okay, well, you've got CFS, you know. Going away from the the label of okay, well, you've got cfs. You're going into that corner and you've got fibromyalgia. You're going into that corner and it's listening to the individual and saying, okay, what are you actually experiencing symptomatically and how long have you been doing that?

Sean Moran: 34:24

And really like taking a deep dive at what's this person experiencing and then have getting those clues and finding out, okay, well, let's, let's look at this area because you know, looking at your sinuses doesn't seem to be really, you know, valuable or necessarily important for you, but you're experiencing POTS or you're experiencing other symptoms which may be more suggestive of an autonomic nervous system dysfunction.

Sean Moran: 34:48

So let's, let's approach things from that perspective and it's really looking at the individual patient and having respect for that person and what they're experiencing, and then, you know, giving something that's a lot more tailored to them. I think that's what's the beautiful part about functional medicine or integrated medicine or holistic sort of medicine whatever however you want to describe it. It's looking at the individual and giving something you know for them as a person and respecting what they're going through and tailoring something for them, and I think that's the beautiful thing that this experience can offer. And you know, people like us can share those experiences and hopefully help people to propel you know them forward on their recovery journey yeah, absolutely, it's that, um, looking at the person as a whole, isn't it?

Jackie Baxter: 35:40

it's, uh, you know, there's not a one-size-fits-all um. There's, there's a lot of commonalities, there's a lot of themes, but everyone is is so different and it's, yeah, it's, it's a beautiful thing, but I think it can be quite a frustrating thing, because it is kind of like we have to find our own path, but, you know, with, with guidance, because there is, there is plenty of that out there, yeah, so, so what does life look like now? Um, the, the dream, what does the dream look like? So what does life look?

Sean Moran: 36:10

like now the dream. What does the dream look like? The dream is, I guess, working full time and being able to function at a normal level again, which for many years was just impossible. So, yeah, getting back to work, exercising every day and being able to get back to playing team sport, being able to lift weights, do things that people you know our age typically take for granted. So not being that person on the sidelines who sort of wishes he was there and laments the times that you know he's missed out on. It's moving forward and not focusing on the past. It's looking at what we can do now and learning the lessons.

Sean Moran: 36:53

I think, jackie, from this experience, I think we've all go through that when we come through the other side, it's you know what have we taken from this to maintain our health, because if we go back to you know previous patterns, in some instances it can lead to you know people relapsing or developing symptoms. So it's taking everything that we've learned from this and putting it into place. And you know we've learned so much. You know about everything. You know going through this. You know horrendous illness and I think that's one of the beautiful takeaways from it is that we can install all that into our way of being a human being, moving forward just to maintain that health and doing so.

Sean Moran: 37:35

So I guess, in line with sort of, you know, in conjunction with living a normal life. Again, it's also holding on to what we've taken away and in my case, I'm trying to help other people through doing some coaching and I've put out a course to try and help people as well. So for me it's like yourself, it's trying to make something positive come from. You know what was a bleak period in our lives and, yeah, trying to do something constructive with that as opposed to potentially just getting on with life and, you know, seeing that as an opportunity to sort of give back and support other people. So I think that's that's quite important and if we can offer anything, even if it's to one person, then it's totally worth it.

Jackie Baxter: 38:21

Yeah, I totally agree, and I think you know you were ill for over 10 years. I was ill for three, which is obviously a much long, much shorter time, but it's still a significant period of your life and I think, yeah, there's a balance there between, you know, grieving what you lost because you know it was a big period of time whilst also learning from it and taking those lessons and trying to take some positives from it, because I definitely find there are times where I'm just like I lost like 10% of my life, you know, and that's a huge amount and feeling that loss and trying to balance that out with, yeah, but look what I gained. I gained so much. I have a new career, I'm so much happier and healthier than I was, and but those three years, I learned so much. You know, some people would have done a university degree in three years and actually what I learned is actually probably no less than someone would have got from a uni degree. It's just that they have a certificate and I don't.

Jackie Baxter: 39:36

But it's that balance, isn't it? Of of what? What can we take, I guess, um, from from that, as, as you said, you know, very, very bleak period of of life. You know it's a lot of pain, a lot of, oh, just awfulness in there, but yeah, it's, it's that, what can we, what can we do? And I think I guess you know, for me anyway, it's focusing on that, um, without dismissing the pain we went through.

Sean Moran: 40:02

I suppose it's that balance yeah, yeah, very much so, very much so yeah, um.

Jackie Baxter: 40:09

So I guess finally and I'll make sure I pop links to your um, your coaching in the uh and your course and the show notes as well, if people want to follow that up um, what advice would you give to your sort of self 10 years ago, say you know, while you were going through this? So, with the benefit of hindsight, what would you have wanted to know?

Sean Moran: 40:31

yeah, I mean, I've probably sort of touched on it, maybe thus far, jackie, but I think for me the biggest thing is trying to identify your individual drivers of your fatigue as early as possible and trying to avoid the mistake of, you know, desperately searching for you know the next thing or the next shiny object and just trying to latch onto that and just hope that that's going to work.

Sean Moran: 41:04

But taking a more nuanced approach to your symptoms and finding someone that you know you resonate with as a practitioner and that is really going to look at you as an individual and is going to, you know, give you, I guess, either a treatment protocol or refer you to whether it's a brain retraining program or a breath program, whatever it takes.

Sean Moran: 41:28

But if it's based on what you're experiencing and I think it's moving away, like I said before, from that label approach of, okay, this person has this and so we're going to give them that, and it's looking at what's happening for you individually, what's happening for you in your past, you know, looking at past trauma, past emotional events, past living arrangements, past head injuries, having a really good history and a full picture of someone to give them that personalized approach.

Sean Moran: 41:59

And I think that it's so key because it's going to save people so much time, so much frustration that is otherwise had and just give people so much hope, which is so important, because oftentimes we lose that when we're going through this, and so to have that hope is really really key. But also taking action, steps and moving in the right direction with a clear path in mind is, I think, so fundamental that it keeps that fuel and that hope going and alive, but it's also ensuring you're making tangible progress. So, yeah, I think I'd really want to, from the outset, have a really clear path and know why I'm going down that path, as opposed to just wandering through and just hoping for the best.

Jackie Baxter: 42:48

Yeah, and DIYing it as you you described earlier and I did the same thing, um, and yeah, I think, yeah, that being being guided by someone who, who kind of knows and understands, I suppose. Sean, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure chatting with you and hearing your story and inspiring others who are still on their recovery journey, so thank you so much for giving up your time.

Sean Moran: 43:15

Thank you so much for having me, Jackie. I really appreciate it and it's been really fun.

Jackie Baxter: 43:19

It's been my pleasure.