157 - Ellen Alden's Recovery: Navigating Long Covid and Finding Resilience

What happens when your lively world comes to a sudden standstill? Ellen Alden takes us on an emotional & enlightening journey through her experience with Long Covid. Once filled with exercise, creative writing, and community involvement, Ellen's active lifestyle faced a challenging pause after a family gathering left her with lingering symptoms. She talks about the emotional turbulence of denial & acceptance and the tough choices she faced in stepping back from professional and social commitments. Her story offers a heartfelt look into the complex reality of Long Covid and the profound impact it had on her day-to-day life.

Ellen's path to recovery is one of self-discovery and resilience. With the support of others & her own intuition, she began to identify the triggers that exacerbated her symptoms and embraced nurturing self-care practices. From the calming effects of breath work to the simple comfort of time spent with her dog, Ellen reveals the strategies that helped calm her nervous system and restore a sense of normalcy. She also shares the importance of minimizing stressors, like avoiding the news, & how these practices contributed to a more stable & fulfilling recovery.

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Presentation on MindBody practises

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Chapters

• 0:00 Ellen's Journey Through Long Covid
• 11:25 Discovering Triggers and Self-Care

Transcript

Jackie Baxter: 0:56

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Long Covid Podcast. I'm delighted to welcome Ellen Alden to the podcast today. So we're going to be talking about Ellen's recovery from Long Covid and diving into all of the things that helped and all that sort of stuff. So a very warm welcome today to the podcast, Ellen.

Ellen Alden: 1:17

Thank you so much. Really happy to be here, Jackie to the podcast.

Jackie Baxter: 1:22

Ellen. Thank you so much. Really happy to be here. Jackie, I'm delighted to have you here. So before we sort of start talking about your experience and the things that helped and all that, can you just say a little bit about sort of what life was like before you got sick?

Ellen Alden: 1:35

Sure, Well, I was leading a pretty vibrant life really into exercise and fitness and being. I was writing books at the time so I'd written, just written, a children's book and I was going around to different schools and showing the book and reading it to the children, doing an activity with them. It was on imagination, and so I was loving that, doing an activity with them. It was on imagination, and so I was loving that. And yeah, I was just really active and you know, with my family and with my community and with my neighborhood too. I was in a pickleball club and tennis team and you know all kinds of. I led a book club and walking group too. So it was just I was just really, you know, I guess just living my life Very busy.

Jackie Baxter: 2:26

Yeah, and you know what you know living your life. That's what we all do, isn't it? Until maybe something happens and we can sort of look back with this perspective and think certainly in my own perspective, you know, I had a lot on um, you know, and it wasn't like there's any blame there because you know you were living your life, um, but it is very interesting, I think you know, to to look back on that, and that's why that's always the first question I ask.

Ellen Alden: 2:59

Yeah, I mean, if you ask me if there's any self-awareness, the answer would be no. I mean, I pushed through things. When my body was tired, I still kept going. You know, I just tried to do it all and I look back at that too and just say, yeah, and did I have a level of anxiety? Yes, you know um even other health anxiety things too. I look back and say, oh, yeah, that was always there, but it was kind of, you know um low key.

Jackie Baxter: 3:24

So yeah, yeah, the things that you sort of, without even really realizing, just kind of ignored, um, yes, um, yeah, so let's talk a little bit about your illness and what that sort of looked like, maybe sort of main symptoms or stages of that kind of illness progression.

Ellen Alden: 3:50

Yeah, I actually do see this in. I guess call them phases of my illness, you know, from when I first noticed after Christmas, after a, a big gathering, that I wasn't getting better, just like everybody. We had kind of a super spreader event in our family and but everybody was one by one saying, oh, that was, that was pretty rotten. But they're all coming back, you know. And I was trying to go out and cross country, ski and do the things that I love to do and I was just like why am I not? You know, why am I not feeling the way I used to before? And you know that it seems to be.

Ellen Alden: 4:29

And I thought, oh, it's just going on a little longer than everybody else. You know, even the doctors are saying that. You know, we're not exactly sure it could be. You know, your body needs to work through this, so rest a little more, you know. And so I thought, okay, okay. But as the time passed on, you know, I just knew that something was a little bit different that for me than it was for other people I barely knew about. You know what this long COVID thing was? I had seen it in the news and thought, no, that's not something that could ever happen to me. But you know, and, and so I think I really resisted that or repressed that whole idea. But something was going on that was really hard to ignore because these symptoms were stopping me in my tracks.

Jackie Baxter: 5:10

Yeah, and you know it's this sort of like. I don't know if denial is almost the right word, isn't it? You know where? You know this couldn't possibly happen to me.

Ellen Alden: 5:20

No, no, it must be something else yeah, I mean, we're talking about the phases, I'm talking about even I had to go through the stages of grief, through this, you know, and I think denial is the first one that you go through. And then, yes, there was the anger, and then there was, you know, and and I'll get to the fact that finally it was kind of an acceptance, kind of a surrender, like a big huge. Um, you know, it was kind of an acceptance, kind of a surrender, like a big huge. You know, things all kind of came tumbling in for me. But, yeah, I just sort of noticed that things, you know, were still happening, that I was having these, you know, really weird symptoms that were going on, and so I realized I was in a phase where I better go figure out what this is. I had that problem solving brain going on like I'll just fix this. You know, whatever it is, there's going to be a solution. So that, of course, like you know, a lot of people, one specialist to the other, specialist to the, you know but at the same time, what was really bothering me is that I had to make some really heart wrenching decisions, you know, I had to stop working, which is like you know. And then, you know, you weren't sure how long that was going to be and I had to say no to, like wedding invitations and, you know, trips or social events. I had to stop my gym membership. All these things that you know don't seem like a big deal but are just like wait a second, one minute, you're doing one thing, one way and your life is going in one way, and the next minute you're thinking about canceling a gym membership or an activity that you used to do and then you're seeing also people still doing those things and it was just a really challenging time. But I realized I really just had to focus on my health at that point and so that was like. Then I got into phase two where I realized it's not going away. So I'm going to, you know, try and see what I can do.

Ellen Alden: 7:06

This was a doozy of a health you know situation that I was going through and so really went the whole looking for doctors, looking for treatment, seeing if there was anything. I went to a lot of recovery programs, went down to even New York City and tried to get some help there. I did all the things that they told me to do, like rest and try to pace, you know, and just hope that by time that things would just get better. But I noticed that in stage three, time doesn't really play a part in this, it doesn't matter as much how much time was passing, you know, and I was noticing that a lot of my tests were coming up normal and I was like how could that be Then? Why do I feel so horrible if my tests are coming up normal? I just didn't make sense.

Ellen Alden: 7:51

You know, I had this exhaustive list of you know things that I was trying, you know, spending money on all kinds of different you know treatments or you know cures or supplements, or you know the whole gamut that you go through. And at the same time I was trying to maintain some sort of you know connection with friends, you know, and maybe a little bit of work. And it's just such a difficult time because you're trying to balance so many things and you're really saying, you know, I guess I got into serious victimhood. Then, like, started asking the big metaphysical questions, you know, like when is this going to end? Like, am I going to get better? You know, is there anybody out there who can help me? You know, because you just keep going to one person and you know, and then you get scared to think that what if there isn't somebody that can fix this?

Ellen Alden: 8:46

And so then that led to a big surrender. It was just, I remember it was one night. I was in the middle of the night, you know, one minute hot, one minute cold, and I woke up and I just, you know, started crying and and I just it all kind of came down. I was like smashing my pillow, you know, and just saying what is going on and you know it's had this big, um, real acceptance or surrender. Surrender that led to acceptance and said wait a minute, I stopped resisting this. I got to stop pretending like this isn't happening or not telling anybody because I'm embarrassed or you know. I stopped resisting this. I got to stop pretending like this isn't happening or not telling anybody because I'm embarrassed or, you know, shamed about this. I just have to start to realize I need to face this.

Ellen Alden: 9:28

And it was really great about that mindset shift was that I realized there were things that I could control very few, you know, my autonomic nervous system was going bananas, but I realized that some things could help, like meditation, could get me to look at where my thoughts were and really catch my fears when they came, or all that negativity that wanted to pour in, because I'd spent a year and a half being in more hopeless and frustrated and depressed, and that didn't get me anywhere, that's. It just led me to the same you know place, which is kind of being stuck. But then when I shifted it to what are the things that I can do? How can I meet my needs on a daily basis? So when I say acceptance, I was not accepting what was going on and I was accepting what I could do in that very moment. You know what little things I could do when my emotions were kicking up or when the sensations were just going so strong. Could I drink a little more water, could I move a little bit, you know, just really meeting myself where I was each day.

Ellen Alden: 10:35

And even that little bit of you know, empowerment made a big difference for me because I was doing something. I wasn't just waiting around, you know, for something external to come across. I realized and I actually went to a homeopath just to check out what that was like and she said the most important thing that anyone has said to me and she said I already see you as healed and recovered and of course, you know, I'm feeling terrible and crying and like, and you know, slept in days and I was like what you know? What are you talking about, you know? And she said you have it within you, you know. Of course I was like what, what is she talking about, you know? But then I went and thought about that and it kind of settled in and I thought, well, maybe these are these things that she's talking about, that I'm doing these little things.

Ellen Alden: 11:26

And then just having that somebody believe in the fact that I could recover really sparked something inside me and I swear to goodness, it made my intuition lead me towards things that did help me recover. Like I found your breathing class, which I think was my first you know thing that helped me get better, and so took that class with Vicki and Vicki Jones and and I really started to feel a little safer in my body. I had moments that I was out of fight or flight. I'm like, wow, what does this feel like? So much better. And things started to regulate a little bit better in my autonomic nervous system. So it wasn't just like this total dysregulation 24-7.

Ellen Alden: 12:08

And I started to realize what were the triggers that were creating this push crash. You know, because before it was so sporadic it made no sense, there was no rhyme or reason, so I never knew what to expect any day and that uncertainty was, you know, really hard. But when I became more self-aware I was like, oh, there are certain things that are making this more pronounced. It could be something emotional, it could be something mental that I did on a screen, or it could be something, of course, physical. But then I also noticed what are the little things that make me feel better, you know, like breath work, like lighting a candle, like getting in my bed and feeling comfy, like petting my dog, you know the safety things that just were little things that made my symptoms, you know, just ease up a little bit. And I did more of those things and less of the stressful things. You know it was really hard because you had to, like, I gave up watching the news in the morning or, you know, watching scary movies and you know all those things, just to get my nervous system to calm down a little bit. And all those changes that I made really were hugely beneficial. And all those changes that I made really were hugely beneficial, you know, and I started my day oh, when I'm more open with meditation, which you know and I started doing these positive visualizations. I was actually picturing myself what that would look like if I was healthy and climbing a mountain that I wasn't even close to getting to being able to do, but I could see it and what that would feel like and what that would feel like and what that would smell like and who I'd be with and the emotions that would be present. And I know that athletes during the Olympics, they used visualization a lot to attain their goals. So I knew and through some neuroscience research that I've done too, it's like that really can make a big difference because our minds are so powerful. I mean, they're powerful enough to be able to create these symptoms because our body thinks that it's in some sort of danger and so it's powerful enough to undo it too if we can bring on some you know safety or if we can see ourselves moving in the health direction. So I guess phase number five was just that I became more self-aware and you know that really helped me. And I also started to manage my mental state, you know, kind of noticing when I was starting to, you know, take a dive and really catch those fears and say, you know, stop, slow down, it's okay, and change that to something more positive. I had a visualization in mind that I would be like a go to, and it was usually that mountain and being over the tree line and what that would feel like, even though it was probably another, you know, a while after that that I actually could do that. Just the visualization of that, just, you know, brought me joy. And also I'm glad I mentioned joy, because joy also added a little little little bits of joy in my life. Every morning I'd say, okay, what would make me, you know, bring me joy today? And if it only meant that I would, you know, have a cup of tea with a friend or you know, just something so small, walk in nature. Or if I couldn't walk, just feel the sun on my face, you know, then that was fine and I kept a journal. Two of my wins, you know, even if they were so teeny yay, I walked 20 feet today. Or, you know, I was able to take a shower. Any of these things, it was wins. So anyway, that is, those are the different stages that I went through and it led me to your, your stuff brain retraining. I took DNRS it's a gut Guta. I took Raylan's course and then I actually got certified in brain, um, brain reprocessing therapy and now, um, I'm feeling so much better that I'm helping other people, uh, recover as well yeah, I, I love, um, I love, I love the phases, because it's really helpful to kind of break this down for people.

Jackie Baxter: 16:08

I think, um, you know I see my recovery in this sort of very distinct phases as well. And you know I see my recovery in this sort of very distinct phases as well. And you know, I'm sure people listening can probably identify with at least some of those kind of you know, stepping stones that you went through in in the process, even if they haven't maybe made it all the way along to the final one just yet. And I love what you said about that empowerment, because you know everybody that I've spoken to who have recovered and, of course, my own experience as well. It's not one thing, it's never been one thing for anybody. You know, maybe some people had like one or two things, or three things, and some people had like 10.

Jackie Baxter: 16:50

But, everyone, it's been this kind of, you know, piecemeal bits of the jigsaw. You find this thing for me, it was breathing first and that sounds like you had a similar experience, um which then leads you on to the next thing, or enables you to be able to experience the next thing, and then the next thing and the next thing. And it's this journey, isn't it? Where you know, you just you find some things and maybe they don't work, um, or maybe it's the wrong time for them, or whatever. You know. But finding, you know what are the right things for the right time for you, you know, and they're all largely doing much the same thing, and that you know they're trying to bring the nervous system back into balance, or the body as a whole back into balance. But you know, everybody's path is going to be slightly different, and that's what is well.

Ellen Alden: 17:34

What what you can see is quite empowering, I think, is that it is your journey and it is for you to find these things, and that's also, I think, the frustration, because there is no blueprint, um, but it's, it's your, yeah, it is your path for you to find, you know, with guidance, um, but it is your personal journey, I think and right and and you know I think it's hard in the beginning too when you're in that constant state of fight or flight and things, your rational side or you don't, you're it's not online as much because you're so much in fear and you're trying to figure so much out and problem solve, and so some of the decisions that you're trying to make so much out and problem solve, and so some of the decisions that you're trying to make, it just it can be so overwhelming in the beginning.

Ellen Alden: 18:16

You know, and that's why I think this nervous system piece really helps to at least calm that down, you know, help us so that we are not in constant fight or flight, so that some of the decisions that we're making, you know, can be more creative or it it could be more hopeful, instead of just like I can't, there's too much out there. There's so many different ways to go and you know, I think also just resigning myself. You know, when I had that surrender to, I could either be stuck in a no way out situation, you know, or I could shift my mindset, you know, to how will I get out of this. You know, and you know that's just the. You know the time that sometimes that does hit you too, like you know. So I just these are, you know, things that I really think were how it went for me and I realized and what you're saying is you really I needed to harmonize everything.

Ellen Alden: 19:54

I need to harmonize my mind you know, my emotions and my, of course, the my body, with all the different systems, before I could get start to feel, you know, some recovery towards health yeah, so you said that you had six things that you found that helped.

Jackie Baxter: 20:14

I think you said six, so you've mentioned a few things already. Do you want to take us through the list, yeah.

Ellen Alden: 20:20

So what I think that was really helpful for me, you know, was that I kind of realized for me at least that this was some sort of chronic stress disorder that my nervous system and brain were just like, because you know I was hypersensitive to even light and sound and people's what they'd say to me and you know and so I knew that my nervous system had some involvement with this. So I knew at first that really needed to calm this nervous system down and not have it be so trigger happy, you know, to regulate it, because also everything in the autonomic nervous system down and not have it be so trigger happy, you know to regulate it, because also everything in the autonomic nervous system for me was going bonkers and it just needed to get more time and rest and repair. So meditation was just a really big tool that I used and it wasn't just like your normal meditation either. I did it in the morning and at night. The morning because you're the most open to, you know, not putting in other things, so you can start the day with that. And then at night, just so you can go to bed with that, it can be sitting in your subconscious. You can have those, you know, dreams and flow with that.

Ellen Alden: 21:31

So what I did with the meditation is I did about two minutes of breath work, you know, really calming down the nervous system, so I could get out of fight or flight and just be in a state where I wasn't afraid to look at what was going on, you know, where I was just like a little more open and a little bit more of a lens of safety, and then I would just look at where my mind was naturally gravitating to in meditation and by with that I got a sense of where I was. So I could see those fears going by, I could see where I was, what I was ruminating on but in an objective, you know way, so that you know there's no self critical is just where's my mind going, where is it naturally wandering to? And I always had that safety of the breath to come back to, you know, when I needed to. But I'd look at what emotions too might be keeping me stuck to in these fear cycles. And then, finally, I looked at the sensations and I looked at them in a different way. I kind of got to a point where I'm going to look at them a little neutrally, like they're. They're sensations, and I stopped being scared of them, like every time they came on, like, oh my gosh. Instead I thought, well, they're just communicating something to me because my body can't talk. So I kind of listened a little bit to what they were saying and actually did things that could be helpful, you know, when they were coming on.

Ellen Alden: 22:48

So reframing thoughts, catching fears, you know, and doing some brain retraining, where at the end of the meditation it was like a 10 minute meditation I would, um, do this, uh, visualization of health. I would see myself, um, you know, in a different place and see what health felt like and uh, and that's that's what I did pretty much every day until I started to come out of it. It was incorporating the breath work, it was incorporating meditation and it was incorporating brain retraining, so using that neuroplasticity. So I wasn't going straight to oh, I get a symptom, let's go to danger, hopelessness and fear. Oh, let's feel a sensation, let's say, hmm, I want to be neutral to that, it's a sensation, let me think about I'm safe in my body, you know, and stuff like that. And it was a very different perspective and it helped me to really calm down. And then I did check ins throughout the day. You know it wasn't just those. You know, morning and night you had to really be more self-aware during the day too. And I did breath work a lot through stressful situations. You know, at the same time I might be doing an activity, even washing dishes, you know, I would just breathe through it, and it made it just a more calming experience. You know, it made it so that I wasn't overthinking it, that I wasn't, you know.

Ellen Alden: 24:16

Um, being self-critical, did I do too much today? Did I? You know? And I kind of gave, gave that away, because no day is going to be perfect, even if we try. I mean, I had to give up. I think you were talking about perfection. I wanted to be the perfect person that recovered. But there's not a chance that with that, I also implemented some fun things during the day, like smiling more just for the heck of it, humming because it's fun and it would activate my vagus nerve, keeping me in that rest and repair, doing the you know, some psychological sighs where I just breathe in and let everything go for a minute, and and saying during the day and believe me, I'm not the best singer, but it just made me feel a little bit better and I knew that I was again activating that vagus nerve which would keep me in rest and digest. So I added these throughout the day and they're easy things to do, you know, they didn't take up too much energy. And also throughout the day I was just more self-aware again, catching those negative thoughts, changing more self-aware again, catching those negative thoughts, changing those when I could and writing down the journal wins.

Ellen Alden: 25:16

And then when I was ready to expand activity, I just started really slow and really steady. I didn't have any outcomes because I realized anytime I had an outcome or a finish date or anything like that, it just would not. It would might come and go and I'd be more frustrated. So I just said, okay, let's just go slow and steady and see what I can do. I also started with activities that brought me the most joy, like what do I love doing? I love being out in nature. So even if I couldn't be out there for very long, I would go out there. I would look at every tree, like things were coming out that you know I hadn't seen before. You know the sounds out there, the smells, and so that was really great too, because I think joy has a little bit more lightness and can really help with recovery too.

Ellen Alden: 26:03

I did things with ease. I wasn't like how it used to be. You know, I have to crush people on the tennis court or I have to be, you know, grip my mountain bike as hard as I can. You know, I relaxed. It was more flow, I was more positive and out there I was just happy to be doing the thing, even if it was for a very short period of time, you know. And so I just expanded a little bit at a time and even if there was an increase of symptoms after, again, I implemented that. Well, it probably makes sense. I mean, my nervous system is expanding its bandwidth a little bit. You know, I'm recalibrating, so it's probably okay.

Ellen Alden: 26:41

And I tried to look at that as a win or a safety, rather than something like oh no, because it's so easy, when you have an uptick of symptoms or you know a setback, to be like, oh, that's it, you know. But I had to just squash that and say, doesn't mean, I'm not still recovering and that's a big, you know, was a big thing to overdo. And then, finally, it was just like I did this thing called sandwiching, which I would before an activity, I would really get myself into a calm. You know like kind of just kind of like an athlete might do before they're going to go. You know, do a big endurance thing. I just feel like you know kind of visualize how it might go, get myself excited about it and know that I'm doing this because I love it, and then go do the activity with joy and ease, and then afterwards I would come back in and also do like a little deep. You know, like I would do more breath work and just think about how happy I was that I was able to do that and what a win it was for me that day. And those things really helped with my mental, because usually after an exercise I would ruminate on is this going to, you know, put me back, is this going gonna? But this is a different reframing of it. This was wow, that was amazing, and wow, what a win for me that I got to do this. So, and it really helped my journey of recovery. So, and then, of course, my.

Ellen Alden: 28:29

The last thing was just shifting my lifestyle and the view of the world, you know, taking a middle way, not being such a striver anymore on things you know and not you, you know, or not being complacent, but kind of finding a, a middle road there and I think I got that from my mindfulness-based stress reduction, kind of more like the Buddha. The middle way I managed my anxiety, you know as much as I could, got support for that and the way that I needed to, um, I realized I could, you know, live with greater ease and not, you know, dis-ease, live without so much fear. That was holding me back and saying yes to more experiences and also cultivating so much more compassion, awareness and gratitude. So now I just make meditation a daily practice, these self-regulating techniques.

Ellen Alden: 29:18

I enjoy what I do. I limit stressors. I know my triggers and I try, when I notice myself falling back to old patterns, you know that aren't, you know that aren't serving me but tend to come up, especially with fear. You know I try and you know see what I can do to really manage them. So that's how it happened really manage them.

Jackie Baxter: 29:45

So that's how it happened, yeah, and I think you know you don't go through an experience like this and come out the same person that you went in, and I think that is a good thing. But you know it's it's recognizing the things from your life before that you want and the things that maybe didn't serve you. And I definitely fall into this pattern of kind of demonising almost the life I was living before. You know, oh, it was terrible, no wonder I got sick. You know that I'll sometimes sort of say, and you know I have to kind of remind myself that, firstly, it wasn't my fault, um, but also that everything wasn't awful.

Jackie Baxter: 30:22

You know, I was living a great life, um, it doesn't mean it was a healthy life and it doesn't mean that I want everything from it in my new life, um, but it was kind of that decision of kind of like, okay, what are the bits that I want to keep and how can I do them in a healthy way, and what are the bits that actually I want to be as new me, because I have this opportunity to build new me up from the ground, which you know is awesome.

Jackie Baxter: 30:48

So I love what you were saying about this kind of, you know, keeping some of your things that you learned out of necessity, that are now part of your daily practice, part of things that you just do because they are your life now and and it's a much better life, a much happier, healthier life that you're now living. I think that's amazing. So what I'd love to know is what did that kind of like moment of I'm fully recovered look like? Was it kind of a slow burn, or was it a kind of like fully recovered, look like Was it kind of a slow burn or was it a kind of like aha moment? How did, how did that kind of look for you.

Ellen Alden: 31:24

Yeah, it was definitely a slow burn and you know, I still don't really know how to, to, to to actually gauge what recovery is or full recovery. You know, all I know is that I can, am back to the things that I enjoy and that I'm so grateful for doing those, you know, and I've learned to be more self-aware, you know, not letting myself get to a point where I'm over too overtired or, you know, managing those that I never did before. You know, I didn't realize you can just turn off the news. You know if it's really scaring the heck out of you or not watching. You know the nightmare before you know, some, some, some Halloween movie that might've really, you know, triggered me, and so it's just.

Ellen Alden: 32:08

You know, it's a. It's a different way to really view life and view the world that I'm living in, and through a different lens. I used to look at it through a lens of fear and anxiety and now I think it's more. I'm trying to really live it through joy and appreciation, um, gratitude and, uh, yeah, so is that the question you were asking? I kind of forgot.

Jackie Baxter: 32:33

Um I it, it was good, Um, good, um, you know, you said, you said to me I think it might have been before we start recording, actually, or it might have been something you said earlier, where you said that you are saying yes to experiences oh yeah and I just thought that is such a beautiful way to be, because we, we don't know what's around the next corner, and if we constantly spend our lives waiting for the next thing to happen, then you know where we are.

Jackie Baxter: 33:00

We're afraid, aren't we? And you know? I think you know, especially having been through such an awful experience as you and I and so many other people have. Certainly, for me, it's that, you know, I, I think you do feel more grateful for things and you do feel how important experiences are and how less important certain other things are that maybe we valued, maybe a little too much beforehand, and it's, I think, for me, certainly it was that kind of change of priorities and what is really important to me, and you summed it up beautifully by saying I say yes to experience and I'm like that's it, that works.

Ellen Alden: 33:42

I know, I mean I was the biggest chicken, I would not, you know, do I would. I always used to say no to experience and it's really funny because while I was just on vacation, there was this big suspended bridge that went from one mountain to the other. And I looked at that and I said no, I am not. And then I was like, wait a minute. My new thing is to say yes to experience, no matter how high, no matter how much this looks like. It could go any minute, you know, and I just I had to say to myself the whole time across I say yes to experience. I say yes to experience. I found myself eating a cricket. I mean, I was doing all these things, not to say that you have to go crazy with things, but I feel like I missed out on a lot of things because I said no and it's so limiting. And I realized after this that we only have self-imposed limitations, you know, and that we can actually question some of those and see if there's more things to enjoy in life Once we, you know, really start to, you know, really have to go inward during this, because it's really an inward journey, you know, and that uncertainty that you're talking about is so prevailing, like what is my future going to look like? What is? And I think for me that might have been harder than any of the symptoms that I experienced too, even though those were not a walk in the park either. Those were horrible, but it was like the uncertainty of what was going to come. But I made you know this kind of surrendering to with uncertainty and, again, just like you said, I kind of reframed it as it's just a not knowing. It's like it's the mystery of life, we don't know what's around the corner and that made it feel so much better. Because what if it actually meant that I would get better or that I could get better, you know, and I took that path instead of the one that just led to nowhere, the hopeless path, you know, that kept me stuck. So every day I would say to myself I am recovering. Now, this is whether I was kicked up with the you know symptoms that were a seven to 10, whether I was in a you know a shutdown, whatever. I would just say I am recovering. And I kept that mindset going. And it's not easy, for sure, and there was, believe me, lots of setbacks too. But as I became more self-aware of where my thoughts were, where my emotions were and where my sensations were on you know, kind of a daily. Then I definitely was able to see that and reframe it.

Ellen Alden: 36:10

You're untangled, you know, with every emotion or with, you know, like I was for a long time. That isn't really too much place wiggle room to get out of it. It's when you kind of take a step back and look at things just a little bit more objectively and say, ok, but what can I control here, what can I do to help myself. And then you'll start seeing and hopefully, when you mind, that mind shift happens like you intuitively can follow some things that will work for you. It's just kind of like an opening. It's like they had to have that surrender. Time wasn't nice, it wasn't, you know, felt terrible at the time, but it did open some pathway to like, allow in more of my intuition to take over so that I would find things like your program or you know the things that I've found, to help.

Ellen Alden: 36:58

So not easy for sure, but I just want to tell everybody that you know that I wish I had known you know certain things like I wish I knew people did recover. I wish I knew that the people were finding their way out and that even that thought alone, if I had had that seed planted in my head, would have, you know, been some great motivation to keep going.

Jackie Baxter: 37:23

Yeah, I think it's so difficult to keep going when you don't feel like you're getting anywhere. You know why. Why am I still doing this breathing practice or this meditation practice or this whatever, if you know, know I'm not really feeling any better, you know. Or, or if I am feeling better, it doesn't last. So what? Why do I want to keep doing this? And I think you know you summed that up really beautifully there that you know it is it's that consistency, that persistence. You know it does take time, but everything that you do that helps your body is helping you towards recovery and even when you don't feel like you're getting anywhere, you are still moving forward and you are still learning and it's still a forward direction, even though it really doesn't feel like it at times.

Ellen Alden: 38:07

Right, and I think that's actually the question that you're asking. Liket, and I was saying, yes, that it was a slow burn. It was not an overnight. You know some people get this. They read Dr Sper, not an overnight. You know some people get this, they read Dr Stern or they you know something, and they're like I got it. No, not for me. It was this consistency of practice, these little you know things that I did every day to meet myself where I was, that got me slowly, and I actually didn't even one day. I just kind of said oh, oh, where did the migraine go? Or did you know it was?

Jackie Baxter: 38:35

I was even shocked, um, that some of the things were starting to work, so, but it was gradual, yeah, so instead it's the race, you know yes, exactly yeah, some people are the tortoise and some people are the hare, um, and you know, everyone, as we were saying earlier, is so individual and um's. Yeah, it's finding your own path and your own animal analogy. So that's a slightly random point to finish on, but that will probably do us.

Jackie Baxter: 39:06

So, thank you so much, ellen, for coming along and sharing your experience and your knowledge and your wisdom and your humour as well, and your joy, your sense of joy. So thank you so much, it's been my pleasure yeah, and you do, and just for everyone.

Ellen Alden: 39:22

And please don't give up, just keep hope.