165 - Overcoming Long COVID: Lizzie's Journey to Recovery and Resilience

Lizzie shares her heartfelt journey through Long COVID, detailing the challenges she faced as well as the strategies that eventually led her to recovery. By embracing the importance of rest, celebrating small victories, and gaining knowledge about her condition, she transformed her approach to health and wellness.

• Lizzie's active life before contracting COVID
• Initial mild symptoms promptly deteriorating into fatigue and brain fog
• The cycle of boom and bust many long COVID patients experience
• Importance of learning to properly rest and embrace downtime
• Insights gained from Jan Rothney's book on recovery
• The challenge of online support groups and potential negative impacts
• Emphasising the power of language in shaping recovery experiences
• Celebrating small victories as a key strategy for motivation
• The journey towards emotional and psychological healing
• Long COVID as a catalyst for personal growth and renewed appreciation for health

Link to Nurosym:
https://nurosym.com

Breaking free from Chronic Fatigue by Jan Rothney:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Chronic-Fatigue-Covid-Symptoms-ebook/dp/B09ZT6PJC9

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring Long Covid With Lizzie
• 15:45 Navigating Recovery From Long Covid
• 32:10 Recovery Mindset and Strategies
• 43:49 Appreciating Health and Life Lessons
• 50:15 Navigating Emotional Recovery After Covid

Transcript

Jackie Baxter: 0:55

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Long Covid Podcast. I'm really excited to be joined today by Lizzie, who is going to talk about her recovery. So we're going to find out what worked, what didn't, what life looks like now and all of that sort of stuff. So again, just a reminder this isn't medical advice. This is just one person's experience and there will be tons of useful stuff, I'm sure, for everybody here. So a very warm welcome to the podcast, lizzie. It's so cool to have you here today.

Lizzie Brazier: 1:28

Thank you so much for having me excited to chat to you.

Jackie Baxter: 1:32

Amazing. So to start with, would you just say a little bit about yourself and maybe what life was like before you got unwell?

Lizzie Brazier: 1:43

Sure, so I got Covid in July 2022 at my sister's wedding. Leading up to that, I was, you know, probably my at my most active that I've ever been. I was training for a triathlon, I was doing um while at work, had a busy career and social life, um, and was kind of one of those people that put 110% into sort of every aspect of my life. So I was busy, I was fulfilled, um, and, yeah, it was a, you know, having a really good time and yeah, then I got COVID in July and initially wasn't actually that unwell. I'd kind of say it was, you know, not dissimilar from flu symptoms. My main symptom was fatigue. It just hit me kind of absolutely floored me, and but I think I was, as I said, one of those people that you know was a bit of a energizer bunny doing loads of things and and not someone who's hugely comfortable from with taking time off work. So I wanted, you know, to get back to work as soon as I could get on with things.

Lizzie Brazier: 3:25

Um, I didn't mention, actually, that I I caught COVID sort of knowing this with hindsight at my sister's wedding and felt a little bit unwell the week after but hadn't tested positive yet and I actually which sounds crazy actually completed a triathlon that weekend and I hadn't tested um and I don't know the day after I tested positive for long for Covid. So probably not a good start to my Covid journey because, you know, doing a physical challenge like that when you know it was probably in my system is not a great idea because I was putting my body under a lot of stress. But that gives you the indication of the sort of character that I was and I say was because I've had a huge journey and transformation and kind of understanding how mad that is when you're not feeling well to do a triathlon um. But yeah, so a little bit of context about where this started yeah, and you know what I can.

Jackie Baxter: 4:33

I can totally relate to that because me of what five years ago or something would have done exactly the same thing. You know, I don't have time to be sick. I'm gonna go climb that mountain anyway because the sun is shining and you know, I live in Scotland. We don't get that much sun, so we have to use it when we get it. Um, so, yeah, absolutely relate to that.

Jackie Baxter: 4:52

And you know, I think you sort of feel like you're wasting time, don't you? When you're sitting around doing nothing. Yeah, um, and I completely relate as well to what you said about this kind of transformation where, you know, viewing rest as productive. Yes, you know, but it's very difficult to come to that, I think, if you are so completely opposite to that. Um, beforehand, yes, um. So yeah, you became unwell with COVID, and obviously long COVID, because that's why we're here. Sort of later on, you said 2022, didn't you? So that was kind of a bit over two years into the pandemic. So I'd be interested just to know from your perspective you must have heard of long covid before you got it but how aware of it were you and and how did that kind of feel when you then started not getting better yeah, I had, I had heard of it, um, I think I probably felt like it was something that was unlikely to affect me personally because I was in really good health, um and fit and active um.

Lizzie Brazier: 6:09

So, yeah, I had heard of it and a relative of mine had um ME, so I'm kind of probably more aware than most um, and I've actually also had some kind of tropical diseases in the past which have have resulted in a period of short fatigue, but um. So yes, I'd heard of it, but didn't, wasn't, didn't fear it, because I didn't think it really would apply to me, I suppose

Jackie Baxter: 6:41

yeah, and that's interesting, isn't it? because, again, I, I got sick right at the start of the pandemic. So long COVID. You know I invented long COVID, yeah, should I be so bold as to say that? You know, I was kind of right at the start of that. So, you know, long COVID kind of developed, I, I guess, alongside my experience, because when I first had it, you know, I think the term long COVID didn't actually start being talked about until, was it summer that year? I can't actually remember. Anyway, it was a little beyond that.

Jackie Baxter: 7:13

But, as you say, you know, things like ME existed before. Other post-viral conditions existed before, and, and you said you actually had some experience of sort of post-viral conditions before, um, but I don't know, I mean, I, I didn't make the connection. Um, and I think I also, you know, was, quote unquote, fit, healthy, completely not at risk for any of this. I don't need to worry about this, you know, oh, I got covid, oh, okay, well, that's a bit of a waste of time when I could be outside, but there was no like for me, no real worry about it, until it started getting worse and worse, and you know, and all of that. So it is, it is interesting. Isn't it the kind of narrative around that Interesting? Isn't it the kind of narrative around that? I guess even you know some people did have this massive fear of it, whereas some people were, you know, like you and I, sort of quite blasé about it almost initially, absolutely.

Lizzie Brazier: 8:12

And I am glad I mean. One really positive thing is I feel like obviously long COVID has shined such a spotlight on those conditions that just said have been around for a while and it kind of makes me sad and sad that, you know, people didn't have that level of understanding about their condition and the support that we have now because it's everyone's heard of long COVID now so it's sort of people are more accepting of it. Yes, they can't understand and nobody can understand unless you've actually been through it, even those that live with us and and see it. I think you just can't explain the gravity of it, um, but I am pleased that you know it's a lot more well known, um, and I kind of feel, for you know my aunt who, who experienced it at a time where the perception was that you know you're sort of you're making this up it's yeah it's.

Jackie Baxter: 9:50

You know you can't see it, so it's very difficult to explain yeah, absolutely, and I think you know that is a really good point. About the visibility of it, you know, I think a lot of people, I mean I would agree with this, you know, when I was unwell, and I think people now who are still unwell would say it does feel invisible, but I think it is a lot more visible than it was. There's still ways to go there, I think. But absolutely and you know that it's talked about a lot more but also that, yeah, you know, I think, unless you've had some experience of it yourself, you can't understand it. You can't understand that.

Jackie Baxter: 10:30

You know that some days you literally can't lift your head off the pillow. You know that actually standing up and walking to the kitchen could knock you out for days sometimes. You know, in these sorts of things, or also, that you know doing one thing might be fine but doing the other isn't. Um, and I think you know there's there's a lot of narrative around employers and family members and, um, all of this sort of stuff, that it's very, very difficult because, because people don't understand it um, but yeah, absolutely, um, so you said that you had fatigue was a big symptom for you. Um, what did your sort of? Were there anything else around you sort of, as you sort of started to move into long covid, um, that showed up for you kind of symptom wise, I suppose honestly, not really.

Lizzie Brazier: 11:19

I think I had. Initially I had two weeks off work, um, and I think I I'd never felt fatigue like that. I could still walk, but I was just absolutely wiped out, and the most similar experience I can compare it to is having the flu, and I think after a couple of, in fact, maybe I ended up having a month off work, um, because of um, I had brain fog as well, actually. So I remember just finding interactions incredibly draining, um. So I think a couple of weeks um into the COVID, I think my aunt and uncle had had popped by I was staying with my mum at the time, um, and I love seeing them, I love interacting with them, and I just remember having to I think I was lying down, sort of on the sofa and they were sat at the table but having to remove myself even from from the room just because I couldn't follow the conversation anymore and it just felt so draining, um.

Lizzie Brazier: 12:25

So, yeah, that's something I've never experienced before that, that fatigue from kind of discussion and that mental, mental drainage, um. So those were really the two main things that I had. I didn't have any chest symptoms, um, or or gut symptoms, it was really just the fatigue and the brain fog that went along with that yeah, but you know I mean not not to minimize that, because fatigue is absolutely crushing, isn't it?

Jackie Baxter: 12:55

you know, um, and again you know I I'm looking back on this I've been recovered now for about 18 months or so and it's almost hard to remember how exhausting that fatigue was. You know now being fortunate enough to be out of it, so it's, yeah, absolutely sort of devastating, I think, isn't it?

Lizzie Brazier: 13:25

sort of devastating, I think, isn't it? Um, I hate the word fatigue, that word, because it doesn't convey how absolutely debilitating it is, and I think a lot of people kind of consider fatigue as being tired. It's not, it's you feel it in every cell of your body. It's I don't know, wait like wading through concrete. I haven't been able to come up with kind of a simple way of explaining it because for me it just but it's totally debilitating and, as you say, how can you even fathom not being able to lift your head up? Or, you know, at my worst, sometimes I can, can lift my arms up to eat, and it's almost beyond imagination for a lot of people.

Jackie Baxter: 14:09

Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. It is beyond imagination unless you have experienced it. Um, yeah, I think you know, one of the most hurtful things that was said to me was, you know, I was absolutely wiped out, so fatigued, you know, really, I think I was trying to sit at the table to eat and I just couldn't, I could barely kind of explain what was so, what was going on, that I was so tired, you know, I was so fatigued and and being said, oh yeah, I get a bit tired sometimes too, and just I couldn't even say anything because I was too exhausted to even have that argument, to have that discussion, but it just felt so, so hurtful and so dismissive. Um, and, and in hindsight I think that person was probably trying to be nice and trying to relate to my experience, um, and say, oh yeah, isn't it terrible when you get tired? You know it's, it's really, you know it's really exhausting kind of thing.

Jackie Baxter: 15:19

But obviously, for somebody who hadn't had that experience of something like long covid, where you have that you know bone crushing fatigue where you can't lift your head up, you know it, it kind of adds insult to injury, doesn't it? I think? Um, for sure, yeah, but yeah, I agree, like the the word fatigue and it's the same with brain fog as well the word does not adequately sort of describe the experience, I think at all. Um for sure, um so, yeah, what, what did you find that helped? I suppose you know, and uh, was there a kind of a timeline of finding things or even doing the wrong things, which was what I did? I did all the wrong things first. Um, so, yeah, how did your experience go of kind of finding things that helped or didn't?

Lizzie Brazier: 16:06

so I think I I went back to work after a month, and it was definitely too soon in hindsight and I think I was just keen, I was bored.

Lizzie Brazier: 16:15

I'm, as kind of mentioned, not someone who was comfortable sitting around. So I think I definitely went back to work too quickly and what followed for me was a number of months of a very much a boom and bust cycle. So I experienced that classic post-exertional malaise PEM crashes in chronic fatigue and I think for ages I didn't really understand the pattern myself. It took um a lot of hindsight and, um, eventually a major crash that really just stopped me in my tracks, um to kind of to understand that. But it was such a tough process because you, one day you're feeling better, um, and you know, because you've been unwell for so long, you want to do things you want to. I mean, I'm not saying sort of big things, but you know, if I had a day where I was feeling slightly better, I wanted to go for a walk or be outside or have a little dance to music in the car no matter how you know restrained that might have been, but just to kind of feel normal again. And I remember my partner because he would, you know, witness this sort of pattern and probably had better insight than it to me, because he could see it and I, kind of living it and feeling it, wasn't able, I don't know, to see it as clearly, but he would caution me and say, you know, but it's great that you're feeling better, but just try and conserve your energy, um, and things like that. And it's so difficult because I, 24 hours later, I would get that that crash, that, um, extreme worsening of symptoms, and the mental roller coaster that you go through with that, from feeling so happy to feeling a little bit better, to oh, my god, I can't walk again and that crushing kind of feeling that you get because you're back down at rock bottom and you just experienced, you know the feeling of feeling that you get because you're back down at rock bottom and you just experienced, you know, the feeling of feeling a bit better. So I think, yeah, that roller coaster was really really tough and eventually my body just completely shut down, um, and so I I guess, with hindsight, it's knowing that actually that change of attitude, as you kind of said at the start, is, you know, rest is good, it's healthy, it's productive.

Lizzie Brazier: 18:48

I didn't rest properly, I didn't give my body that time that it needed and I think that partly resulted in my enduring symptoms. Resulted in my enduring symptoms. So I think learning to rest was key. And properly rest, um, you know, not reading well, not that I could really read a book at that time, but, you know, not watching a crime drama on tv, that's going to set your body into fight and flight. It's actually learning to meditate, to be still to do some breath work, um so that. So that was really key, um, for me.

Lizzie Brazier: 19:28

Um, yeah, I think I had, for a number of months, being part of sort of Facebook support groups and things like that, and I found them quite detrimental because there are a lot of people posting about the fact that they'd had symptoms for two or three years by that point, and that was terrifying to me because I just thought, oh, my god, I can't, this can, my God, I can't, this can't be it, I can't, this can't be my life for a long period of time, particularly when I was, you know, because I had been so active. So I left those support groups just because of the sort of mental pressure, just because of the sort of mental pressure, and I got really into a place of, I guess, quite deep depression and not a positive outlook. And I think it was Christmas, kind of the Christmas, that first Christmas after the July that I got it, so six months or so after catching COVID, and my family had known about my condition, obviously, but they hadn't really seen me when I'd had my crashes and I was home for Christmas and so my family was really visibly witnessing it for the first time. And I remember my mum saying to me look, lizzie, you just have to be positive about this. And I remember saying mum, how can you expect me to be positive? I can't walk. And yeah, so it's. Um, and yeah, so it's.

Lizzie Brazier: 21:25

You know, those sorts of conversations are really challenging, um, but around that time I'd been able to sort of my brain fog had lifted a little bit, I was able to do some research and a massive sort of cornerstone in my recovery was actually just knowledge and that kind of the subsequent change in mental attitude and belief. So I learned about the mind-body connection and, for me, understanding kind of what was happening in terms of biology and the nervous system, which I could just absolutely resonated with me. That was really key because I said once I understood. Yeah, this is, this is biology, this is my body sort of, you know, was in fight, fight and flight, probably was in fight and flight for a really long time before I got COVID and that was the final straw.

Lizzie Brazier: 22:27

It just completely made sense to me and once I understood that I was able to change my attitude and actually for the first time, believe I was going to recover because, just, I guess knowledge is power and, yeah, you understand a reason for what's happening, so I could sort of understand that you know it was going to get better. This was very eloquently written in Jan Rothney's book Breaking Free from Long COVID and Chronic Fatigue, and I have to say that book was absolutely transformational in my recovery because she explained the nervous system really well and then she went on to explain lots of techniques to kind of slowly and safely recover and I used a lot of her learning kind of in my recovery, um, so that that was sort of fundamental, just that, that understanding. And I'm a massive believer now in the mind-body connection and how you know what we're thinking, how that can influence our symptoms, um and the belief, and so remarkably, I was really quite quickly able to go from despair to really believing that I was going to recover. And I actually got better really quickly once I'd had that mindset shift and then followed some of the techniques that Jan mentions and also some of the techniques that I picked up in the app Curable, which was sort of initially designed for sufferers with kind of chronic pain but can equally be applied um, chronic fatigue and other autoimmune conditions and things like that. So that was kind of really um the fundamentals um of what changed, I think, just reflecting something that didn't work so well for me.

Lizzie Brazier: 24:36

Um, when I hit that rock bottom and I think I spoke to a GP or somebody recommended that. You know, there's all these analogies with sort of spoons and chronic fatigue and the energy levels that you have, and I started trying to conserve energy by counting the number of steps that I did and it would kind of be well, if I can stay under a thousand steps, then I'm going to be OK and I won't crash, because I just feared that crash so much. Um, but actually I think this was really detrimental to me and actually caused me to start having some other symptoms. So when I was doing that, you you know what is this arbitrary threshold of a thousand steps. If I had a thousand and one, or a thousand and two steps, I'd be terrified that I'd overdone it.

Lizzie Brazier: 25:36

But I understood with hindsight that that is putting my body back in fight and flight because I'm scared that I've gone over. That leads then to a crash, because your body's back in fight and flight and then when I'd get the crash, I'd be distraught, like you know, absolutely guttedted, emotional, and that's firing off more negative signals to your brain, which then just reinforces it. So it's a vicious circle, um, but at that time, months after I'd had COVID, I started to develop heart palpitations which I hadn't had previously. I'd have an absolutely racing heart, even at rest or, you know, in the middle of the night. I remember shaking my partner one night and kind of well, yeah, it's sort of ridiculous now because of course that probably wouldn't have been the symptoms, but I thought I was having a, or going to have a heart attack, because I'd never experienced palpitations like that.

Lizzie Brazier: 26:42

Um, and I think that was just my body in fight and flight because your heart is racing. There's, you know, they're classic symptoms of when your body's, you know, um in olden times, getting prepared to run away from the, the lion, um, so that all kind of fits in with now, my understanding of the nervous system. Um, so I think, yeah, it's, it's all well, and you know advice around conserving your energy. Of course you have to rest, but I think it it's more important to listen to your body and to do things when you're feeling able to do them, and that's really kind of the message of Jan Rothney's book, um, and she she says to sort of safely increase your activity when you're feeling well and to, crucially, only have positive experiences. So and then to really reinforce how successful that's been and just remind yourself that actually you know you can do this.

Lizzie Brazier: 28:21

You know, I think I don't know if it was a mantra that she had in her book or something that I came up with, I can't remember but you know I've walked every day of my life.

Lizzie Brazier: 28:30

There is nothing, there's no reason I can't do it again.

Lizzie Brazier: 28:34

And when I was feeling well, I would start to increase my activity levels and then celebrate afterwards, say you know, I had a shower standing up today and yell about it at the end of the day. I made a cup of tea today for the first time because my partners had to bring it to me for however many months and just really over, emphasize and exaggerate that celebration and she really talks about this in her book because that's relaying those kind of positive experiences in your brain that will start to replace the negative wiring. That's that's happened, um, you know, been happening for a number of months, because of course your brain learns. You know reactions. So if you're going through a boom and bust cycle of activity and then 24 hours out, four hours later, a crash, your brain is learning. Activity is bad, activity causes fatigue, and so you have to sort of or my view and jan's view, and you know a lot of um research out there is you can rewire that and retrain your brain to teach you that activity is safe.

Jackie Baxter: 29:52

But you've got to do that in a sort of measured way yeah, and you know it's all about the body feeling safe, isn't it? Um? So increasing things super quickly is probably not going to make your body feel safe, quite, apart from the fact that you know I'm going to drop the D word deconditioning. You know, if we are not moving for a long period of time, then we are deconditioned. So if we were to increase activity too quickly, then we are, our body is going to struggle. So there's kind of like you know, both side of it, isn't it? You know it's that safety in our body. But also, you know you got to build slowly. You know you don't go to the gym and suddenly lift the biggest weights. You start with the smaller ones, um, and work up to it, don't you? Um, yeah, I love, um, I I love so much about what you're saying about listening to the body, because I agree. I mean, you know, I don't want to demonize anything that people are finding helpful, but I always caution people with things like, you know, wearables, you know, because they can be very useful to help people kind of work things out, maybe short term. They can be very useful to help people kind of work things out, maybe short term, but I do worry about maybe people using them longer term, because you know, exactly for the reason that you said, and also the ones that beep at you. When it starts beeping at you, that is a very strong signal of danger, isn't it? I think you know it's always, for me, it's always feeling first. Um, you know data can be very, very helpful, but always feeling first. I, you know data can be very, very helpful, but always feeling first. I think you know, and learning that, what feels good in your body for me anyway. So you mentioned Jan's book and I'll make sure that a link to that goes into the show notes for anyone that hasn't come across it and wants to look it up, one that hasn't come across it and wants to look it up.

Jackie Baxter: 31:46

Um, and you mentioned the, the celebrating. You know celebrating wins, and I think this is so important, you know, to celebrate the wins and to look for the little good in things, because when we're not well for such a long time and it's such an awful, awful experience, all we see is bad. Because there is so much bad, let's face it. You know there's tons and tons of bad. We're're feeling awful, we can't do anything, nothing's helping. You know, is this going to be my life forever.

Jackie Baxter: 32:11

You know all of these thoughts that are going through our heads, because that is the reality that we're kind of living, and then starting to look for those little glimmers, you know, even if it's just like, hey, the sun's shining today, you know that's a big glimmer in Scotland, or you know I, yeah, you know whatever those things are, and those little wins, you know it's such a ridiculously small little win that maybe you were able to sit up in bed, but actually, you know what, if you've not sat up in bed for six months, that's huge. You know there's nothing little about that, is it? And it's coming back to. You know the, the kind of.

Jackie Baxter: 32:46

You know we were talking earlier about rest being productive and this kind of change in, I don't know if you want to call it mindset, or you know just the kind of the way we look at things, which kind of is mindset, isn't it?

Jackie Baxter: 32:56

And you know that rest isn't evil, rest isn't bad, rest isn't lazy and that, actually, if you can now do something that you couldn't do before, that's not pathetic and little and not worth celebrating.

Jackie Baxter: 33:08

That is absolutely massive and you should, you know, shout it out, um, you know, and really, really celebrate that, because it may seem small and insignificant to somebody else who doesn't have your experience, who sits up in bed every morning, um, but for you that's huge. Um, you know, and I, you know it's that kind of I don't know. I mean, you know, we're both from the UK and we have this kind of like thing where we, we don't want to celebrate, we don't want to shout out, we don't want to, you know, kind of be proud of ourselves in public because that's, you know, kind of that's not what you do, um, but I think so much about this is actually coming out of that shell and saying, yes, you know, kind of that's not what you do, um, but I think so much about this is actually coming out of that shell and saying, yes, you know what I did this thing today and wasn't that wonderful that I did it.

Lizzie Brazier: 33:51

I think that's really cool um, and the more you focus on those positive things it's like a muscle, isn't it, they say, with sort of gratitude and positivity the more good you then see once you start. Um, and it can be difficult at first because you know you might feel there's not much to be positive about when you when you're like that.

Lizzie Brazier: 34:12

But if you keep up that practice, you see, you know, you see it and, and more, you know, you see it everywhere. I think language is also really important and I think this was a technique or a tool that was on the curable app that I worked through, and they sort of suggested sometimes changing the language, that you were kind of talking about your symptoms and so, for example, instead of saying, oh, my god, I feel so awful and fatigued today, they suggested changing your language to something like okay, I feel less energized than I would like to today. And the power of kind of changing those words because the nervous system that the amygdala, you know, the sort of fear sensor that's, that's picking up on on so many subtleties, um, which can sort of reinforce or improve symptoms, so it's even picking up on, um, you know how you're talking to yourself, your inner voice. All of these things can make a difference and I found that incredibly powerful and sort of almost magical, because I can't remember where it was from and, again, it might have been in Jan's book, but she actually talked about an amygdala, pep talk, um. And I found this, as I say, almost like magic, um, whereby, you know, you're trying to override that fear sense um sensor. And she said you know, even your tone of voice, the way you're speaking about things, has an impact.

Lizzie Brazier: 36:11

So I used to do a mantra when I felt fatigue coming on and I could almost sometimes feel that coming on and there were certain triggers you mentioned earlier holding your head up, sitting at a table. When I was first really ill, I couldn't hold my head up and I actually found that, um, even like months down the line, as soon as I sat at sat at a table, I almost felt fatigue coming on because it had learned and remembered that experience of not being able to hold my head up. And I remember being a little bit better and being out to dinner for my mum's birthday and sat at the table and felt fatigue coming on. And so I did this mantra where I'd say in my head over and over again, kind of very calm, clear, sort of almost authoritative you know I am safe, thank you, body for trying to protect me with this fatigue, but I just don't need it, I am safe. And just repeating those sorts of things very calmly, over and over again and honestly, I got up from that meal and walked away from the table.

Lizzie Brazier: 37:25

So I stopped the fatigue in its tracks and even saying it to you now it seems unbelievable but like, I absolutely experienced it, um.

Lizzie Brazier: 37:37

So it just demonstrates that power of of words and and it sort of also reinforces, um, all of the kind of learning and understanding I had about the nervous system and the body.

Lizzie Brazier: 37:52

Um, I guess, um, because you know, as we were saying before, you can kind of get into this vicious cycle and when your symptoms are, if you're distraught about it and you know, crying and in despair, that's not, yeah, I completely get that you need some time to kind of process that. But also, the more quickly you can move on and focus again sort of on your recovery, the more quickly your symptoms are going to resolve, in my experience anyway. So I learned to to be able to, if I did feel fatigue again after I'd had a couple of good days, actually be quite sort of philosophical about it and not get too upset. And I found then that my crashes weren't nearly as long and then quite soon I wasn't experiencing any crashes. So, um, it is incredibly interesting and to say for me, that mindset shift, that belief, the change in language really, I think was absolutely key to my recovery yeah, and it does.

Jackie Baxter: 39:03

It sounds. It sounds ridiculous, almost, doesn't it, when you say, oh, I just did this little thing and it had such an impact on me, um, but you know it's. It's like finding your strategies whatever your strategies are, um and then practicing them, because practice makes progress, and then the first time that you put it into practice in a situation where you really need it. So you're finding yourself feeling fatigued, or you're heading into that fight flight and things are maybe getting a bit out of control, or you know, whatever that situation is, and you use your technique that you've practiced and, oh my goodness, it worked. You know whether it's a strategy that you've practiced, and, oh my goodness, it worked. You know whether it's a strategy that you've mentioned, whether it's a breathwork strategy, whether it's. You know, whatever that strategy is, you use it and it's that proof, isn't it? It's proof to yourself okay, there's something in this. Okay, this one thing is probably not the entire story, but this one thing is helping me. So I'm on the right track. I've found things that are helping. I'm seeing that improvement, which means I can see more improvement, and it's kind of building that confidence in recovery.

Jackie Baxter: 40:09

I think, isn't it that you know you can keep seeing that improvement because you know I think it might've been Dan Neuffer that was saying more than belief in recovery, it's confidence, confidence in recovery, and I think that's what you get, isn't it? You know, you might have that belief, and that is important, but through that belief, through doing the work, through trying the strategies and through finding these things that do help and are having these positive influences on you, that is where you start to build that confidence, and I think the two kind of work together really beautifully, don't they? Yeah, um. So what did that kind of like final, um sort of march up to up to the recovery line look like um for you? You know, how did you kind of yeah, how did you get across the line and how did you know that that was that? How did you know of, yeah, how did you get across the line and how did you know that that was that? How did you know that you were recovered?

Lizzie Brazier: 41:05

so it really was very quick for me. Um, once I had read Jan's book, um kind of understood the nervous system, I think I was still quite mindful that of course your body does need rest. So I was very disciplined and I set up quite a good structure because I needed some sort of structure to my day, I think, because I was off work. And so I kind of set myself quite a good routine which included a lot of rest, set myself quite a good routine which included a lot of rest, and that just made me feel as well that even if it's sort of little things that you're doing, even just saying, okay, well, for this hour, because I'm feeling a little bit better, I might watch an episode of whatever my favorite show or do a meditation, at the end of the I would then kind of almost have that sense of achievement or I've been productive just because I've stuck to my routine, even though I've done really nothing all day. You kind of get that sense of accomplishment and I think that was also important for me at that time. And so I kind of set myself this routine and, as I say, had lots of periods of rest in in it, and but I I quite quickly started pushing the activity boundaries when I was feeling well and celebrating those, going into doing them with kind of utter confidence, as you say, because that's so important um, that it was, you know, going to be successful, didn't.

Lizzie Brazier: 42:48

I try to bat away kind of doubt, um, or not think about kind of in terms of I'm overdoing it. I try to remove kind of those fears, um, and I think I I sort of increased my activity level, try to sort of baseline that for a few days and then increased it so that it was measured, um, but within a month or so from being at a point where at the Christmas dinner table I couldn't I had to be carried from the table to lie down because I couldn't lift my arms to eat my Christmas dinner, um, a month or so later I was up and about walking around, started running again, which was amazing because that had been sort of a great passion of mine before I got COVID and also a way of de-stressing. And that's the awful thing, isn't it? Because in COVID you are at your most stressed, you're at fight and flight, you're in despair and you've also lost the normal tools that you would have used to combat stress. So you're kind of in a double whammy.

Lizzie Brazier: 44:06

I can relate absolutely um, so you know, and then that just exponentially, things happen when you can then have more of those tools at your disposal. So, as I say, it was actually remarkably quick for me. But I think I learned a good lesson in that I gave myself a month, even after I was feeling pretty much better, before I went back to work, and I never would have done that previously. But I just wanted to absolutely consolidate what I'd done and that's advice I give to to people now who are going through long. Covid is just. I know how it feels to want to rush back and also that kind of guilt sometimes that you feel of what are my colleagues and my employer thinking? Because you know they see me you can't see the fatigue or if they see me on a good day, you know they might question how sick I really am. I think that all kind of lays on a pressure to return and I guess the biggest advice or learning that I had was your health is the most important thing and just give yourself more time, because if we rush back into doing things often we end up being out for longer because we haven't given us that initial time and that's just been a massive learning curve for me and I think I'm so much more balanced in everything that I do. Now my priorities have shifted.

Lizzie Brazier: 45:47

I used to be the person that when I, you know, I'd go out for a lunchtime run, say on a Tuesday, and I wanted to get a personal best, I was always like pushing myself to my limits and you know that can be good but it can also be really detrimental, that pressure that you're putting on yourself and also take a lot of enjoyment out of life. Because, you know, is it that much fun to run if you constantly want to want to be improving and you're conscious of your time? Now, when I run, I don't run with a watch, so I don't know how long I've done something in, and it's more just about enjoying being outside and running in nature. Um, and also, of course, you know, although I say I'm recovered now, I, my fitness levels are not what they were before COVID and I'm not sure whether I'll ever be able to do the kind of same physical amount of physical activity that I did before, and that there's an acceptance journey in that to kind of, you know, make peace with the fact that you know you're just, you are a different person now and there's sort of no point comparing yourself to your former abilities because you've changed, and that's.

Lizzie Brazier: 47:12

That's not a bad thing. I think it's a really good thing. I'm almost at the point where I'm glad that this happened to me, because I think I'm just a much more balanced person Maybe not such a steep learning curve, but I definitely think I've gained so much from it.

Jackie Baxter: 47:35

Yeah, I think that's a really nice way of looking at it because, I mean, some people say they're grateful for their illness. You know, different people who have recovered say different versions of this and I remember someone saying that to me. You know they'd recovered and I was maybe halfway through my journey at the time and in hindsight, obviously I didn't know that at the time, um, and she said, oh yeah, no, I'm really grateful for my experience because I'm a much better person now and you know, I love my life and I was just like how can you possibly say that I'm in the middle of this experience that I don't know if I'll come out of? And you know I was feeling pretty hopeless at that point. So, you know, it's, it's something, I think, that you make your peace with afterwards and you put your own stamp on what that is. And you know, I think I'm now come around to the point where I'm not grateful for the experience, because it was the worst thing I've ever been through, but I am very grateful for the lessons that I've learned and the me that has come out the other side, because, you know, jackie 2.0 is a lot better than the Jackie that got sick in the first place. You know, I just am healthier and happier in every way. You know, and you know I, I just I'm healthier and happier in every way. Um, you know, and you know, I think that's a very personal thing. Everyone has their own kind of take on that and that's absolutely fine. And if you are in the depths of long COVID or ME-CFS and you're thinking I don't even I can't contemplate how that might feel, I think it comes, you know, because I certainly couldn't think like that until until I'd been recovered for a while.

Jackie Baxter: 49:02

You know, I think it was a good sort of later on, after, after recovery, that that sort of started to come back to me, I think. But you know something you said there about your health being the most important thing that we have. I very much relate to. You know, I think we take it for granted, don't we? I think, often, until we get put in this situation where, where we don't have our health, you know it's, it's taken from us, and we just feel that sense of grief and loss and hopelessness. And you know, I, yeah, I think one thing that I am very, very grateful for now, now, every single moment of every single day, is my health and it almost seems like miraculous that I have it back, even though you know it was. It was that experience that I went through in order to to have it back. But yeah, I think you know you have this different outlook. I think, having been through something like this, um, which I don't know it's, it's a nice outlook to have.

Lizzie Brazier: 50:06

I just wish we could have it without the experience yeah, no, you're right yeah and yeah, yeah, on reflection, your way of articulating that was much better than me. I think you're right in that it takes you to. You have to go beyond the illness and have a period of recovery before you can unlock some of these insights. And I think what you just said there about the grief, the grief and the loss I think at the time I didn't really understand or couldn't put a name to some of the feelings that I was feeling, because you're so depressed. But it is grief and loss because you were grieving for the person that you were before COVID and it's incredibly painful, that sense of loss, and I think, yeah, if I could kind of give some advice to people, it's also just to be kind to yourself through that process.

Lizzie Brazier: 51:04

Yeah, because it's there's a, there's a lot of emotion and and also I've since actually been to therapy, um, to to kind of unlock and unpick some of this, and I think if you're in a position to do that, I'd recommend it, because I think it's almost you're almost experienced a trauma through the COVID and the long COVID and even those around you, and I think it is worth recognizing the gravity of what you've been through and giving yourself time to to explore and process that properly. It's not a case of, okay, great, I'm better now you've been through a monumental journey and yeah, as you say, it takes some time to get there and you need that reflection. Um, but it is. Yeah, I'm glad that I've sort of given myself time properly, properly, to explore that yeah, I, I would agree.

Jackie Baxter: 52:12

I think you know therapy is not the magic cure. It's not going to cure everything, but it makes everything a hell of a lot easier. Um, you know, if you have a handle on on some of that stuff, stuff with a big s yeah, absolutely well. Thank you so much for joining me today, for sharing your story, for bearing your soul, for putting yourself through that again, um, to help everyone with a little bit of hope, um, and some, maybe, ideas to look at. So, thank you so much thank you.

Lizzie Brazier: 52:44

Yeah, it's so great to chat to someone that relates and if you know, even one thing resonates with with someone else, then I'm, I'm pleased.