174 - Uroš Čimžar - From Crisis to Rebirth: One Man's Journey Through Long Covid

Uroš shares his inspiring recovery journey from long COVID, revealing how addressing hidden emotional patterns and learning self-compassion transformed not only his health but his entire approach to life.

• Prior to illness, Uroš appeared to be living his best life following a 15-month sabbatical, with a fitness routine and new career mentoring entrepreneurs
• After contracting COVID for the second time, Uros experienced severe post-exertional malaise, brain fog, and eventually became bed-bound
• Finding online recovery stories provided the first ray of hope during a period of despair and medical uncertainty
• Breathing techniques helped regulate his nervous system, with yoga nidra becoming a daily practice that brought surprising mental peace
• Discovery of his unhealthy relationship with emotions became a turning point – Uroš had been "putting poisonous snakes in a bag" for decades
• Self-compassion meditation triggered unexpected emotional release, allowing him to process suppressed feelings
• Identifying limiting core beliefs about always needing to "give everything" transformed his relationship with himself and his family
• Recovery progressed from bed-bound to house-bound to gradually increasing physical activity over approximately 6 months
• Rather than returning to his previous life, Uros is now focused on creating "Uroš 2.0" – integrating recovery lessons into building a more authentic life centered on passion
• The recovery journey revealed five phases: calming the nervous system, removing stressors, gradual reexposure to life, leaving the sick mindset behind, and integrating the lessons learned

Links:

Long Covid Breathing Courses: www.LongCovidBreathing.com

Dr Becca Kennedy: https://resilience-healthcare.com/

Dr Becca Kennedy on the Long Covid Podcast:

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Chapters

• 1:50 Meeting Uros and His Story
• 5:29 Life Before Illness Strikes
• 10:11 Post-COVID Decline and Symptom Onset
• 16:10 Searching for Answers and Finding Hope
• 25:22 First Steps of Recovery and Breathing
• 36:58 Uncovering Hidden Emotional Patterns
• 43:24 Transformation Through Self-Compassion
• 49:53 The Non-Linear Path to Recovery
• 55:07 Integration and Life as Uros 2.0

Transcript

Jackie Baxter: 0:55

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Lung Covid podcast. I am absolutely delighted to be joined today by Uros, who is going to share his recovery story, so I'm so excited to dive into all of this. What worked, what didn't, what does life look like now? So thank you so much for joining me today. It's so lovely to see you.

Uroš Čimžar: 1:18

Thank you for the invitation. I really appreciate it.

Jackie Baxter: 1:23

It's absolutely my pleasure and, as you'll hear as we go on, this is not the first time that Uros and I have met, so we're going to get into that. I hope so. Can you tell us just a little bit before we get sort of more into this, what was life like before you got unwell?

Uroš Čimžar: 1:46

Well, quite well actually, at least I thought so.

Uroš Čimžar: 1:50

Now, looking back, maybe I would comment on it differently, but at the time I was at the end of a 15-month sabbatical during which we traveled a little bit with my family. I was physically quite active, in a good shape, so, I don't know, two times a week I went to the gym with personal trainer to lift some weights, three times a little bit of running, one time like mobility exercise, because it's basically an hour of stretching. So I wanted to live healthier, let's say, and so on, and I started, let's say, a new career. So it kind of organically happened during sabbatical. I started mentoring young entrepreneurs, and it was like this small consultancy business, and I basically tried to, let's say, organize my life in the way I like it, let's say so, a little bit more relaxed than past 20 years, and I thought it was working. Oh yeah, and I was also, let's say, during sabbatical, I took up on psychotherapy, let's say so I got into the therapy and so on, and I worked through some things. So everything should be well.

Jackie Baxter: 3:06

Yeah. So this is really interesting because a lot of people and this was my experience as well, you know had a period of quite intense stress, whether it was one big event or whether it was a lot of sort of chronic stress, kind of leading up to when they got unwell, which, you know, probably contributed to what happened afterwards, whereas from what you're describing, it sounds like, you know, you were going through this kind of period of transition into, you know, very, very healthy way of living. Um, so it almost seems like the other way around from what you're describing that was my intention.

Uroš Čimžar: 3:48

Let's say there were some underlying stuff that I didn't address. Looking back now, I know that, but at the moment I was quite happy. I even, let's say I did a first time in my life like preventive health checkup, you know, the one that you pay at the private institution and they check everything. They found a thyroid problem I was not aware of, which probably was the source of the tiredness at least. So I thought at the time I went on, let's say supplements, let's say so I get a supplement, hormone of DHS, and everything was great. So I really started feeling great at the time. So then, a little bit before the new year of 2024, yeah, probably so at the end of 2023, I got COVID for the second time. So it was not even the first time, it was the second time I got. It was not even the first time. It was the second time I got vaccinated three times before. So let's say I thought, okay, nothing special. The only thing that bothered me was that for the New Year's Eve, let's say, we had an arrangement with another family so that kids will, because they're still the same age and everybody's looking up to it. So I was really happy because on the New Year's Eve I was okay. I got myself tested two times, three times, not not positive anymore. Okay, great, we can do this. Felt a little bit tired, but otherwise okay. We had a wonderful evening. Let's say we were up to 3 am, which for me it was okay, great.

Uroš Čimžar: 5:18

And then, let's say, five days after the new year's eve, I felt okay. So 10 days after, I said, okay, now I can try gym again. So I went there, lifted some weights with personal trainer and during the this one hour session I felt some kind of strange I don't know how to describe it, but like the energy went out of me. But I said, okay, maybe I came back too soon. So I just let's say, okay, no more physical activity for a week. And I did everything. I started having meetings with clients and so on. Next week, a week after, okay, now it's again a week, seven days. And I feel, okay, why not, I try again? And it repeated a little bit, let's say more intense. So even the personal trainer noticed. So, okay, what's wrong? What happened? At this moment I told him okay, I just felt weak at the time. But again, finish the session, go to the lunch, and the next day I didn't feel so good. So the next day it was even worse. And let's see, then it just went a little bit worse each day. So I had some meetings with the clients and I started losing words. I didn't, let's say, it never happened to me before. So during the conversation I just didn't know what I was talking about. I still remember, with one client asking them can I just lay on the couch for like half an hour during the coaching session. I did, and I feel better, and so on. And then during, I believe, this mobility exercise, I saw the stretching Again.

Uroš Čimžar: 7:04

A week later it happened that after 15 minutes I felt really, really bad. I pushed through to the end because yes, of course you have to, and it's like 10 minutes drive from my home. I barely made it home and then I was so scared. What's happening? It's really unusual. And I just started canceling in-person meetings with clients. So I did it over the Zoom and again the same stuff After like 15 minutes I couldn't manage anymore. So I just schedule it for one hour, so nothing more.

Uroš Čimžar: 7:46

Uh, and the week after let's say there's one client with a problem I felt better. I said, okay, let's go for a talk and walk and talk because, uh, in like a crisis situation, it's better for them if they walk, they can share it more easily, and we went really slow. I was really happy. Oh, yes, we, I made it. It's getting better, uh. And then in the evening my son asked me if I can drive him to the bookstore, because we have this rule that once per month he can buy a book in bookstore. Everything that gets him reading. So, even if it's comic, and this was like this was one thing over the top.

Uroš Čimžar: 8:26

Uh, again, I barely made it back and then basically, I was bad bound from that moment on, so I couldn't. I was really tired, I didn't know what happened. I started Googling for my symptoms, uh which I know it's not recommended and I went on this National Institute of Public Health website about COVID if it's COVID-related, long COVID and they described some symptoms and so on. So I identified post-exertional malaise. It's so unusual as a symptom that it was really easy to identify. Went looking, searching for it online, tried to find some community. I don't know how I ended up on Reddit in CFS subreddit.

Uroš Čimžar: 9:19

I would not recommend to anybody because this was like the most depressing week of my life Because they are so fatalistic. Nothing can improve, nothing can happen. If somebody recovered, they're lying. I tried to contact my GP, I believe you call it. They were on strike at the time, so it was like 10 days from now. So, okay, I will read a little bit more about it and I don't know why. I just put into Google long COVID recovery and I believe that you're not aware of it. There was a video from Raylan's channel that came up and it was an interview with you. So the first thing, let's say the first positive thing on this journey, was me listening to you discussing with Raylan about your journey, how it helped you, what you tried, and I was like, okay, breathing, interesting, because up until this experience, let's say, I was really dismissive of alternative approaches. Let's say I had some bad experiences in the past with, let's say, charlatans, people who just try to take money of vulnerable people.

Uroš Čimžar: 10:40

So I was dismissive Because I read about everything and you know this story about three blind people who are presented with elephant and let's say, first, one touches the trunk and he says this is like a snake. The second touches the tail and he, oh no, it's a rope. And to the one who touches the foot, oh, it's tree. So this is my experience reading about long COVID like scientific article articles, explanations. Each, each article just focused on one symptoms and it was like it's a tree, it's a tree, it's a snake. But there was no underlying cause, no, nothing explanation. And it was really depressing. Okay, how long should I wait for a cure? So in this mindset I said to myself okay, if there's any, I will probably try other stuff. If it doesn't sound like somebody's trying to rip me off, like money-wise, and if it will not, let's say, hurt me if there's not this possibility. So, listening to you and you're discussing the breathing as the first step, okay, I can try this. So nothing should be wrong with breathing and it sounds there are some sense to what you were saying. So I believe the next day I already contacted you via email, chose a course and then waited for the course to start because it was like a month out. So I just okay, I will have to wait a month to see.

Uroš Čimžar: 12:17

And then my life was basically looking through. Each day. I watched some of the videos and tried to find out what could work for me or what not. Oh yeah, and let's say I had, let's say, an appointment with gp and let's say what? Now I know it was a kind of a brain fog I experienced there for a last time, because I have to wait for him like 45 minutes sitting in and if I would not put down the notes let's say jot down some notes a night before, I would not be able to describe to him what's happening with me. And he saw me in this condition and he actually believed me. So I was referred to the long COVID, let's say, specialist.

Uroš Čimžar: 13:07

I didn't know that we have it and most GPs in Slovenia don't know, because I talked with people with similar experience. They don't know it. It's like a part of cleaning for different infections or something like that. So you have to know where are you trying to get an appointment. And three weeks later I got an appointment there and I was put on this state of disability, let's say so long-term disability. So this was actually a better experience than most people have in this kind of condition, but there was nothing useful. Okay, so just do some pacing and people do get better. So they didn't tell me that nobody gets better, so this is also okay. So didn't, didn't kill any hope, but nothing that you could do if I would, let's say, just go up. Oh, my GP asked me if he can prescribe me something for depression and I told to him look, I'm not depressed. You know that I was on sabbatical for like 15 months already because I was there because of thyroid problem and so on. I'm not depressed. And he told me yeah, but maybe you will be.

Jackie Baxter: 14:21

Harsh. I mean, you know, I think you know not to dismiss mental health, because mental health and physical health do go hand in hand. But, yeah, ouch also. But I think you know you hit on something really, really powerful there when you said you know the the sort of the support groups and the reddits and the sort of information that you were finding, and it's such a difficult balance, isn't it? Because, you know, you, you had a doctor who listened, um, which which is great, you know, isn't it a bit sad that we're like, oh, the doctor listened to me great, you've got a really good one there, um, you know. But but you know, at least did listen, even if they weren't able to do something helpful? Many people have had experiences where the doctor hasn't listened or hasn't believed them.

Jackie Baxter: 15:11

But we are kind of forced into this position where we have to do our own research. We have to find our own way through this, because there isn't really a medical system that is able to help us through it. But the difficulty there is that, because we're forced to do our own research, we end up reading or listening or consuming an awful lot of stuff that either isn't useful or is, you know, actually making you feel worse. You know, being very mindful of what we're consuming, but in order to find the things that are going to help us, we have to wade through quite a lot of stuff that isn't, um, you know, and sort of very you know, in-depth research papers that maybe we're not able to understand, or, as you were describing with your beautiful elephant analogy. You know it like it might be describing in detail something, but that's not very helpful if it doesn't tell me what to do about it.

Jackie Baxter: 16:44

And then we do eventually find something, you know, and for you we connected, you know, and I'm so grateful that we did. Or, for me, breathing was also the first thing that I found, and that was why I then chose to do what I do. But it just there's something about that first thing isn't there. That's very powerful because it gives you that hope, it gives you something, it gives you some sort of control or something to hang on to. I think you know that then enables you to move forward, to find maybe the next thing. Well, certainly that was my experience maybe the next thing.

Uroš Čimžar: 17:26

Certainly, that was my experience. Yeah, I believe that for me now, looking back, it's not so long, but it was like before I, let's say, when searching for a long COVID recovery. It was like 10 days of despair and each day it was worse. Let's say, because there's a lot of information out there that this is like chronic, so it can be managed. Some people recover, but not so many. And especially if you go looking because I went down the rabbit hole of CFS, not long COVID my mistake, looking back, because for long COVID the statistic is a little bit better.

Uroš Čimžar: 18:03

And after, like I believe, five days, I actually reconnected with my therapist. I told him okay, I will probably meet you in this process, because I know that, let's say, I was like a weekend in this bed-bound phase and my son wanted something from me. My wife was not at home, I couldn't help him and he didn't understand at the moment what's so wrong. And it was basically next day I had a crash. But from the emotions I experienced this evening, so it's so, it's so, it's so such a dark place, so that the first time that you see, oh, it's such a dark place, so that the first time that you see? Oh, here's an actual person that recovered, yeah it's such an amazing feeling that I could not describe.

Uroš Čimžar: 18:55

I'm getting goosebumps right now just remembering it. So, yeah, it was for me. And then listening to all the different stories of recovery, that's in the meantime. And I tried a lot of stuff, let's say so. Okay, I enrolled into your class for, let's say long, covid breathing, but I had to wait. So you also, I believe, mentioned, let's's say so, cold water and stuff, and I said to myself, okay, I cannot go out. So no cold water, we may call showers and it was not good for me. Now, looking back, I know it was too soon, my nervous system was still highly dysregulated and but, yeah, I tried cold showers. It didn't work. And then yoga nidra. Oh, thank you for mentioning this, this was like this, this was so great. Uh, it was like this calm moment in a day which is also calm, but, let's say, a lot, of, a lot of frustration. And yoga nidra became like a first uh thing that actually became part of my new daily routine, apart from watching, let's say, different recovery videos and then trying to find some kind of theory from it.

Jackie Baxter: 20:15

let's say so what works, what doesn't, yeah, yeah, and there's something amazing about, I mean, yoga nidra. I I think it's magic and it was. Yeah, it was something that I discovered that really helped me to bring some sort of peace and quiet to my mind, because I have a very busy brain which is always on, and you know my brain is wonderful, it's a superpower in so many many ways, but there are times where I need to turn it off and for me, the yoga nidra was a way of just dialing down what was going on in my head, to bring a little bit of peace to my mind as well as my body, and I just remember it being this kind of space where I could just be, you know, away from kind of expectations. And you know you described, you know, your, your child now I don't have kids, so I can't understand this, but I can imagine that, as a parent, not being able to care for your child must be such a difficult place to be, and you know you mentioned that things could get quite dark.

Jackie Baxter: 21:26

And you know, I think I think we don't talk about this enough because you know we talk a lot about the physical struggles of condition, like long COVID, you know which are, you know, invisible enough. I think you know the um struggles aren't always very visible. Um, but the mental side of that as well, I think you know, is such a difficult place to be and and for me I found that yoga nidra was really helpful for that um, to sort of regulation, as well as my body, um, yeah yeah, let's say, yeah, it was.

Uroš Čimžar: 22:12

It was really dark, let's say for me, especially what was painful, because I started imagining, okay, if this is how it will be, there's a lot of stuff that I will not be able to do with my kids anymore, that I will not be able to do with my kids anymore, and this just brought me into this downward spiral of negativity and so on. But I also, let's say yoga nidra. Now, looking back, and with the stuff that I learned, I was now before long, covid. I was not aware that there's such a thing as a cognitive stress. Let's say, you mentioned that you have like a busy mind, me also. Let's say, my mind never stopped. I didn't even know it's possible to rest your mind. This is such. Yeah, I would. I would be able to argue with somebody that this is bullshit if somebody told me this before. Yeah, so yoga nidra was the first step of me, let's say, actually resting my mind, because it's like guided and it's so gentle in a way, and it was mind-blowing. Uh, yeah, this, how can you be? Let's say, the body is asleep and you are still like conscious in a way, and so on. So, yeah, it was the first thing that actually made me better in a way Not physically, I was still, let's say, I was about I managed to do 300 steps per day at this time, but, yeah, it worked. What then Then?

Uroš Čimžar: 23:43

Let's say, yeah, quite early on I started intermittent fasting. It was just a logical conclusion. If I'm laying down all the time and eating the same, this will not be really, it will not be okay for me. And somebody mentioned okay in one interview, somebody mentioned fasting that it's also good. So I just said, okay, why not intermittent fasting? Oh, and even before the interviews, I just noticed that my morning coffee it feels different and it's, it's like it's not good. And I stopped drinking it. And I was trying to get off coffee a couple of times before and each and every time I had this horrible headache. This time nothing, I just stopped. So probably my body was in such a bad shape that not even a headache, not even a little. I just stopped drinking coffee. Cold turkey done so, yeah, so this was it.

Uroš Čimžar: 24:42

And then, yeah, what else? Oh, I started doing, started experimenting with different things mentioned so somatic tracking, it effect tapping and some things. Laughter yoga this is a little bit uncomfortable at the beginning, let's say, laughing out loud on cue, but okay, but something resonated with me, some things didn't, let's say so it if tapping, not somatic tracking yeah, I can do that. Especially, let's say, I got some guiding meditation somewhere and now I know it was, let's say, the beginning part. It was like grounding techniques and it was really nice. So reconnecting with body and so on, feeling safe, all this stuff.

Uroš Čimžar: 25:32

Oh, and sleep, sleep was, let's say, my sleep experience was really bad. I always woke up tired, but I started to be really I don't know really on schedule regarding sleep. So each day at eight o'clock I should be, I was always in bed, but I should be, let's say, preparing for sleep no, I'm not reading anymore and so on. So there was like this strict regiment and I, I started to use it and, yeah, it helped a little bit, let's say at least, with sleeping. I slept. I didn't woke up rested, but at least I slept through the night.

Uroš Čimžar: 26:49

So this was, let's say, this first phase of trying to find solutions or something like that. And I know I just started, let's say started a list of stuff that's available for me each day, and then I chose, like a menu in a restaurant, something that seems like I would like to do this day and try it, so on. So it was not each day, except Yoga Nidra. This was like each day, maybe multiple times a day, but each day I tried something new and in the end I got to the new daily routine. That kind of worked for me. Thank God that. Let's say, I had problems reading, so I couldn't read at the beginning, but I could listen without a problem and I could also watch some stuff. Let's say so this is why I could do recovery stories and so on. I was not bored to death. Yeah.

Jackie Baxter: 27:43

So you went through this kind of phase of sort of experimentation, I suppose, where you're like, okay, I'll try a bit of that, I'll try a bit of that, and some of them worked really nicely, like the organidra, and some of them worked less well and I remember I think it was Raylan actually that said the great thing about something not working is that you can just throw it away and you don't have to try it anymore, whereas when I tried something and it didn't work, I thought, oh no, it didn't work, this is a disaster. So I loved her take on it when it was like, well, it doesn't work, fine, do something else it's also great because there's so many stories and so many options to try.

Jackie Baxter: 28:27

Yeah totally so. Yeah, so we went through this kind of process of experimentation and you found, yeah, some things that worked really well, some things that didn't, and you sort of worked this into your daily routine. So what was your kind of next step? This was just before you started the breathing course.

Uroš Čimžar: 28:48

I think you said yeah, this was like in February and we started in March.

Jackie Baxter: 28:53

Yes.

Uroš Čimžar: 28:53

So I started to notice some patterns because my, let's say, my friend says that everybody has some kind of superpower and my brain is like really good at pattern matching Even before in, let's say, work environment. This was like my superpower. So I started noticing some patterns and so on. And then I also let's listen to the interview with uh dr becca kennedy, and she was like spot on with what I noticed, let's say patterns, but she explained them really well. So I also then enrolled into her class, uh, which then started at the beginning of April.

Uroš Čimžar: 29:33

But then we started our breathing classes and, okay, the breathing techniques, great, happy to learn them. But what was also really great was like this community of six people meeting twice per week with the same experience. Because I'm also quite lucky, let's say, my family supported me, my wife believed me, she took over everything, let's say, because for me it was really hard not to contribute to the household chores or everything anything like that. So to have there like six people in pretty much the same experience and understanding, and you don't have to start each and every conversation with explaining what long covid is and so on, because you're getting sick of it and but it's the only thing that you can actually talk about because nothing else is happening. There were like six people with the same experience in each other and it was great, let's say.

Uroš Čimžar: 30:31

But also let's say then, the breathing techniques, understanding diaphragm. I still remember that I asked you when it's okay to do a mouth breathing and you looked at me a little bit confused never, yeah, because you know, when I played water polo when I was younger, so for me mouth breathing was always connected with sports, and then I was okay, but then I will be more active. So then mouth breathing goes okay and you are no, no, no, I was breathing all the way and for me, okay, this is not possible, but okay I, I accepted it. Uh, and as you said, techniques, let's say some breathing techniques are more your thing than others. So I found some of them and I believe it was like two weeks or three weeks in that I was now.

Uroš Čimžar: 31:24

I was already. Let's say, I graduated to the couch from the bed, so I was able to do around 500 steps per day. So I was more couch bound bed. So I was able to do around 500 steps per day. So I was more couch bound. Yay, there was tv and I was watching something, some sitcom doing left nostril breathing, and something was so strange, so different, and I didn't identify the first part it was. But then I remembered, uh, when you explained to us okay, if, if, you are really in this relaxed state, in rest and digest, that you have saliva in your mouth and tummy rumbles, and I was like, oh, I'm actually in this rest and digest state. So for me it was the first time in 15 years that I probably achieved it. It was so strange, let let's say the experience for the first time, that it really surprised me. And it was so that this dichotomy of, uh, let's say, lying there not able to do anything and at the same time, feeling this like peace of mind, everything for the first time, it's so. It was really no, in a way, because I should be really stressed out, but I was not. I was calm, relaxed and able to focus just on TV, not looking at the phone at the same time. Just one thing. It was well, it was really an experience of again, one of these moments that you remember forever. So, yeah, and then it helped a little bit.

Uroš Čimžar: 32:53

Day by day I started, let's say, doing this, not pacing, but I started to be, let's say, also physically active. Again and again your advice helped, let's say, because we live in the first, on the first floor in our house. So there's this steps problem and it's just 14 steps, but it looked like a big challenge. And again, pacing yourself by nose breathing, it really worked. So I believe for the first week for me it was okay going down the stairs and then up the stairs and waited. When I felt the urge to mouth breathe, I just waited, rested a little bit and then go on, and at the end of the week I was able to do the stairs. So then I went out a little bit, let's say 100 meters and so on. At first my wife was, let's say, with me, just in case I ended up pacing myself with a breath, let's say. So it helped a little bit. And then let's say this class, dr Kennedy's class, really helped, explaining the science behind it and so on. So I also understood understood, let's say that the breathing helped, let's say it was a tool to calm my nervous system, but it was not a tool to remove my, let's say, stress sources.

Uroš Čimžar: 34:16

So this what my stress sources are was really surprising. You mentioned that. Look, my life was completely okay before. Let's say, I was at the end of sabbatical. I had some savings so I could afford it. No stress, money wise, which is another thing that I don't understand. Okay, I was put on this disability, but if I would be like in a need to work to provide for my family, this is whole another level of stress that I'm grateful I didn't have. But let's say to anybody who experienced this, I really admire them to to go through that at the same time. So what was blessing my source of stress? Uh, so what was my source of stress?

Uroš Čimžar: 35:15

Emotions. I had an unhealthy relationship with emotions and I was not aware of it. Like you know, even kill never gets angry. In the crisis, I was the one people came to because, look, okay, it's the crisis, we'll solve it. I was calling influence and so on, but this was, uh, this was an outside picture, let's say inside, I got really good at suppressing emotion.

Uroš Čimžar: 35:36

When I started feeling them uh and uh. When I was talking with my son about it, I described to him that it's like walking down the road seeing a poisonous snake and you just pick it up and throw it in a basket or a bag on your backpack and then, each and every time this snake comes out and bites you, you just put it back. But, let's say, during the years there was a lot of these snakes, let's say, and constant biting and constant biting. And in this class you are taught something I believe it's called I don't know it's expressive writing and let's see how to deal with these memories from the past that bother you and so on. And I followed the recommended routine and it helped. It's really interesting. There's some stuff that you it's not. When I was listening to different uh interviews and they mentioned like traumatic experience, I was like I didn't have any trauma.

Uroš Čimžar: 36:33

Probably it was trauma for me, I don't know, at the beginning, and then, okay, there's big trauma, little trauma and here, okay, I didn't have any traumatic experience, like big traumatic experience but there was a lot of this constant small stuff that bothered me, but I never resolved them and I started doing this expressive writing exercise and after two times of writing about stuff and doing I don't know self-compassion and so on, it just stopped. It never came up again. So for me it's like, okay, I carried with me this for 20 years and then, I know, three days of writing, some self-compassion and it's gone. Such a missed opportunity I was able to do this at the beginning. It would be so much better. Yeah, oh, and self-compassion. This was this. I'm so surprised by this. Uh, uh.

Uroš Čimžar: 37:31

I found this kirsten neff guided meditation of 20 minutes of self-compassion. I don't know who recommended to me my therapist or it was mentioned in this class or something like that did it for the first time and I felt something move in my chest. Oh, it's strange. Three times in, uh, I was crying. Uh, for the first time, I don't know, but really crying. I. I shared some theory before, but this was like really crying, feeling something I didn't know how to identify and it started opening up something in me. So I believe the self-compassion for me and dealing with emotions self-compassion was the first step and then I dealt with emotions, and during this whole process I had like weekly meetings, over Zoom, of course, with my therapist.

Uroš Čimžar: 38:26

So now looking back, it looks like a really short time because each and every day was the same, but during this period it was okay. There is spring, now it's the beginning of the summer and so on, and you're still in. Okay, now you're doing a little bit of walks and so on. But let's see, it took me some three months or something like that, and I was able to slowly come on top of the nearby hill. It's like two kilometers of walking one direction, maybe 100 meters of height difference or something like that. So nothing steep, but I was so happy because it's also. I started using visualization techniques, visualizing me on top, how easy it is to be on the top, how much strength I have in me, and so on. So for the first time when I sit on this bench at the top of the hill, the view was a little bit different than I visualized, but I was sitting there, I was so happy, it was so, yeah, another great experience. So it was, yeah, it was so happy, it was so.

Uroš Čimžar: 39:24

Yeah another great experience. So it was, yeah, it was week after week, doing some routine and, yeah, let's say, being compassionate, exploring this repressed emotions, I would not say oh. And another thing that really helped me during this process and it's also part of this course is identifying core beliefs and the rules connected with them. This was mind blowing for me, let's say. It also explains a little bit my personality and because I'm type A, of course, let's say highly driven and so on, I know that for me, what was like measure of success was that you gave everything. It was not the goal, but you have to give everything, but everything was like really everything.

Uroš Čimžar: 40:22

I remember that at the beginning it really bothered me that I didn't know how long the recovery will took, and I was. Then I was discussing with my therapist. It doesn't bother me anymore that I don't know how long the recovery will took, because I will recover, it seems. I'm on a upwards trajectory. But something's still bothering me. He asked me what? And I say because each day I don't do anything, everything possible. I'm not, you know, putting myself in. And he looks at me. Why does this bother you? And I say something. It doesn't translate well, but I said something in accordance, because only if you gave everything, then you're a good boy. So you know, I talked with me like you would talk with a small child or something like that, and it was so mind-blowing. Oh shit, this is this hidden role, hidden mode, core beliefs and so on. So this really helped me change some stuff, and especially in how I perceive myself and what a success is, and it changed my relationship with myself, with my children and with my wife really a lot.

Jackie Baxter: 41:35

Yeah, I love this because I think you know you don't go through an experience like this and come out the same person that you went in, and I used to think that that was a bad thing. I thought, if I'm not going to be the same person I was before, then I'm losing a part of me. And what I have come to realize as I went through my recovery and have now come out the other end is actually that I have gained so much and that I have, you know, become a much happier, healthier, better person than I was before, and I still do, and are a lot of the things that I was. But I now am viewing it through this lens of is. Is this useful right now? You know, actually, should I be working, given that it's nine o'clock in the evening, or should I close the laptop, like four hours ago, and actually do something that brings me joy? And it's kind of? Yeah, it's a transformation? I think isn't it, and you know, for me it's been very much ongoing as well.

Jackie Baxter: 42:46

We continue to see ourselves and have more awareness around ourselves and things like emotions, like you say that we're not supposed to show emotions. We're not supposed to show emotions. You know that's weakness if you show emotions, um, you know, and, and actually, no, it's not real. Strength is in showing and processing those emotions, so it's completely flipping the mindset on that, isn't it? Um, and I love that that you've kind of been through this process and discovered all these really wonderful things that have changed the way that you interact with other people and yourself as well. I think that's wonderful, um, so you know, you've kind of talked through all of these things that helped and you know how you've sort of been so grateful for those things that you were able to do, like sitting on top of that small hill and just thinking this was the most amazing thing ever, um, what, what was that moment of recovery like? So when you finally said, okay, yeah, I'm there, I've done it, how did that kind of look?

Uroš Čimžar: 43:57

non-eventful? Yeah, no, because for me, let's say, I still remember. Uh, let's say, what I was mostly focused on, it was movement.

Uroš Čimžar: 44:09

I really wanted to move again. Let's say so, in this class of dr kennedy I there's like eight modules. Movement was number seven and I was so frustrated. Why number seven? Seven weeks out, going through this whole emotional work. You know, now I understand it's great that it's at the end, but it was moment, and let's say the moment for me it was after maybe six months, let's say so.

Uroš Čimžar: 44:34

At the beginning of the summer I was able to basically walk without a problem, not a problem. I went on the walks. I was even able to drive a little bit like half an hour myself already. So quite nice recovery. But then the symptoms I didn't notice as much before started to become more. They came in front. I was not even aware at the beginning that uh, let's say my heart rate was strange. So, let's say, sitting up I had like a quick, let's say, heart rate, increased heart rate. Standing up it was like 160 or something like 170, not not working everything. So I was not able to let it sit and have a conversation. And it was so strange that even after I went on an hour walk and during the whole walk the heart rate was like 80 came down, sit down, let's say rested. Having sit up 90, 100 in sitting position, so it was okay.

Uroš Čimžar: 45:34

Non-logical symptoms. So this one was a little bit, let's say, harder heart rate. I tried to ignore and I had this strange head tension. I don't it's because it was not headed, it could develop in headache, but it was like somebody would uh put my head in some kind of screw and just I don't know, strange head tension. You know how it's hard to explain the symptoms to somebody. You know this is one of them. Uh, and this was prevalent.

Uroš Čimžar: 46:03

Let's say I was trying to do anything, let's say visualizing that it's gone, doing somatic tracking and so on. And at the end I came with this across Dr Schubiner's five Fs, and one of them I don't know the other four, but one of them is frustration, so stuff that you shouldn't do. I believe it's fear, focus, fix and fight. You should not do anything with the symptoms, but also don't engage with frustration. And I said, okay, how should now I not be frustrated by the symptoms and so on. And I believe I came across Dan from Pain Free you and his daily talks that he does in the phone. He has some kind of opposite of frustration is indifference For me. I didn't even know what should I do with? How should I not be frustrated? Okay, you can be indifferent, and so on, ignore them, ignore the symptoms.

Uroš Čimžar: 47:01

And then, let's say, at the end of the summer most of the symptoms were gone. But then we, when we came home from the sea, they returned a little bit, but I was able to move, I was able to do stuff. So in like 10 months in, I came back to the gym for the first time. I tried once before, but I just canceled the appointment because I didn't feel like it. So I went into the gym and started doing a little bit of weight exercises, really slow, and it was okay, but still, sometimes there was this like head tension symptom and then it just there, was not there in some and I didn't notice it. I noticed absence probably, let's say, a week in or 10 days in, I don't know because't notice it. I noticed absence probably, let's say, a week in or 10 days in, I don't know, because I ignored it. So this is why it was uneventful.

Uroš Čimžar: 47:50

But you mentioned that it's an ongoing process. So for me, I believe that this part of this last symptom was this mindset of not being sick anymore. Symptom was, let's say, this mindset of not being sick anymore. You know, because I'm surprised how quickly I developed this mindset. Okay, I'm sick, let's say I have low COVID, I cannot do this stuff because I started to recover quite quickly. Let's say, for me I was bed-bound around the month, then house-bound mostly another month and then I was already, let's say, doing short walks and so on, but still I developed, okay, this fear of stuff that I couldn't do and so on. So, leaving this behind it was a process. I was physically already okay. I still had this weird little symptom, but I could do everything.

Uroš Čimžar: 48:42

So then I slowly started to do, let's say, maybe reconnect with some, my consulting clients and so on, and then somehow I fell back into the old patterns and the symptom came back. Let's say, I believe it was february of this year, so maybe a year in, and I was okay, what's happening now? And so on. Going through back to my notes, in my mind, what's happening? Okay, so it's nothing physical, probably something with emotions, no, and I remembered, because I jotted down my insights during this process, because I had one of the insights two times and I say, okay, I forgot it the first time, so better to jot it down. And then each morning I just went through them and it helped to, let's say, readjust my personality a little bit. And one of the things that I noticed in that I jotted down that I looked at activity always from the duty perspective. I should do it, even though it was an activity that I enjoyed, I don't know, going on a bike ride with my children, great activity. But in my mind, okay, I should do this so they have like the experience with their father when they're young. And I noticed, oh, I'm doing this again now with my work, I'm just going through the motions from the duty perspective and so on. So now I started to ask myself why, why should I do this? And the symptoms went away in a week. I didn't do a lot of. I stopped doing some stuff. Let's see.

Uroš Čimžar: 50:17

So I believe this is, I don't know, phase five of recovery. If the phase one is, let's say, calming down the nervous system, phase two is removing the stressors. Phase three was like gradual exposure to the life again. Phase four is maybe leaving this mindset of being sick behind. Phase five is probably integration of everything that you learned in your let's say, in quotation mark normal life. And I'm in this phase right now. So I don't want to answer, let's say, this recovery question. I don't want to be recovered in a sense that my life would be the same as before. I want to take everything that I learned and have a better life.

Jackie Baxter: 51:04

Yeah, I think that's a beautiful way of looking at it. You're Uros 2.0, in the same way that I am Jackie 2.0. You know, you're the new version, you know, and I think that's wonderful and you're right. You know the integration back into life. I mean, I find this really hard for me.

Jackie Baxter: 51:26

I got sick right at the start of the pandemic and I sort of dropped out of life for, you know, several years and then I was coming back into life, a different person, but it was also quite a different world as well. You know, when you do drop out, you know, even for a shorter time, you are a new person coming into a different world as well. You know, when you do drop out, you know, even for a shorter time, you know you are a new person coming into a new world and you're trying to work out how do I fit in as this new person, and it's really exciting, but it's also quite a scary and difficult experience, I think, and it's it takes a bit of time. I think it certainly took me a bit of time and I guess it's as you say, coming back to those lessons that we've learned of self-compassion, you know, and and allowing ourselves to feel that and and yeah, be gentle with ourselves as we go through that process.

Uroš Čimžar: 52:17

I think yeah it's, it's really I don't know. It's really something, let's say, and it also I'm much slower now in starting, let's say, a new business, a new career, because I'm thinking about, okay, what I'm passionate about. Let's say, now I'm 47, I still have some, let's say, working time, some opportunity to. I still have some, let's say, working time, some opportunity to do some stuff, but I would like to do stuff that I'm passionate about. So, yeah, so I'm slowly developing this with one of our friends and, yeah, okay, I'll burn through some savings more, let's say, but hopefully at the end I will do something. I will work each and every day in some field that I'm passionate about, not something that, uh, like before that I was slowly getting disillusioned.

Jackie Baxter: 53:16

let's say, yeah, yeah, I think we, we learn what is really genuinely important to us. I think, don't we? When, when you go through an experience like this, where you kind of lose the ability to really do anything, um, you know, you do learn. You know what is it that really matters, and it's not always the things that you originally thought. I don't think. That was certainly my experience. Um, yeah, boris, thank you so much for coming along and sharing your story and, um, it's been so such a pleasure to be a small part of that journey and and just yeah, thank you so much for sharing. Um, I will make sure that I drop links in the show notes to everything that you've mentioned, so if anyone wants to follow up any of that, then please do.

Uroš Čimžar: 54:07

And yeah, thank you so much thank you for the invitation and being a big part of my recovery, not small part, so thank you again.