176 - When Your Body Becomes a Stranger: One Man's Path Back to Health

Karl Robottom shares his remarkable journey from Long Covid symptoms to running marathons, offering hope and practical insights for those still struggling with the condition.

• Former PE teacher whose active lifestyle was completely derailed by Long Covid despite having only mild initial Covid symptoms
• Experienced breathlessness, severe fatigue, significant weight gain, dysautonomia, and cognitive difficulties that placed him in the bottom 7% nationally on tests
• Endured 18 months of inconclusive medical testing before being referred to a Long Covid clinic
• Found relief through cold water immersion, beginning with morning swims in a natural seawater pool in Devon
• Developed a comprehensive recovery protocol including breathing techniques, yoga nidra, electrolytes, and fasting
• Breakthrough came through participating in a clinical trial using Simproof, which he later supplemented with homemade kefir
• Gradually returned to exercise through careful listening to his body, eventually completing his first marathon
• Now training for a 45-mile challenge around Bristol, marking the complete circle of his recovery

If you've found hope or inspiration from Karl's story, please consider sharing this episode with someone who might be struggling with Long COVID. Your support helps us reach more people who need to hear these recovery stories.

More info & support Karl on the Green Man Ultra Marathon Bristol - 45 miles - week beginning 26/5/25:
https://www.justgiving.com/page/k-robottom-1717842870657?utm_medium=FR&utm_source=CL

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Karl's Recovery Story
• 2:55 Life Before Long COVID
• 4:53 Early Symptoms and Misdiagnosis
• 11:00 Medical Tests and Waiting in Limbo
• 19:00 Self-Directed Recovery Attempts
• 30:54 Clinical Trial Breakthrough
• 38:48 From Walking to Marathon
• 44:03 Life After Recovery and Final Reflections

Transcript

Jackie Baxter: 0:55

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Long Covid Podcast. I am delighted to be joined on this beautiful sunny evening in Inverness by Karl Robottom, who is here to share his recovery story. So we're going to find out what that looked like, what worked, what didn't, what life looks like now, and with every recovery story it's you know, obviously, that that hope, um, you know someone, someone's recovered um, but also, you know, are there some things here that resonate with me that maybe I could try um. So there's the hope and the inspiration, hopefully. So I'm super excited to hear what, uh, what, your recovery looked like Karl, um a very warm welcome to the podcast today

Karl Robottom: 1:40

thanks for having me, Jackie. It's a pleasure to be here.

Jackie Baxter: 1:43

Oh, it's so. It's going to be really fun. So before we kind of dive into what the illness looked like and all of that, can you just say a little bit about yourself and maybe what life looked like before you got unwell.

Karl Robottom: 1:59

Yeah, sure so I'm a teacher looked like before you got unwell. Yeah, sure, so I'm a teacher currently teacher of English and some senior roles in a school in Leeds. But before that sort of nine years ago, I was head of PE in school in Bristol and had been PE teacher for near enough 20 years. So sport and, uh, exercise and fitness and and everything around that was was a huge part of my life really. Um, you know, played football when I was young enough and unable to do that and then, as I got a bit older, got into running and cycling and swimming and just keeping fit and health really healthy really. So so that was where I was up to um, yeah, um, around the time when I became ill.

Jackie Baxter: 2:47

Yeah, and that kind of. I mean, you know a lot of people will resonate with this, because we know that there were a lot of people who were athletes or who were very into sport and activity and stuff that that did get hit really hard with long covid. You know, sort of unexpectedly or unexpectedly to us anyway, because I certainly can relate to a lot of what you're saying um, you know, I was really fit, therefore, I was really healthy, so I should have been fine. Um, and certainly part of my journey was unpicking some of that. But you know this idea of that exercise being such a central part of your life. And then, of course, well, we'll probably get into all that, won't we?

Jackie Baxter: 3:29

Where long COVID kind of comes along and suddenly that bit of your life that was so important to you is not something that you can do. So that, yeah, and all that comes along with that. So can you give a little bit of an overview of, kind of maybe, when you first got ill and sort of what that looked like and how that moved into the sort of long COVID sort of part of the story, I suppose?

Karl Robottom: 3:59

Sure, yeah, well, it was. Actually. It was in summer of 2020, so, you know, the first year of the of the pandemic, really not long into the into it, um, and I probably I must have had a very mild version of, at the time of of covid which barely sort of was recognizable. It was before testing as well um, you know, probably had a very mild cough, some sort of smell issues that you know that would. I noticed that were slightly different, but you know, a lot of the, a lot of the, the news was about high temperature and a really bad cough and it wasn't anything like that.

Karl Robottom: 4:39

So I just sort of, you know, didn't, didn't think any more of it really, um, but from around that summer, uh, into the autumn, I suppose, I noticed that, uh, my breathing was getting really bad and that was the first thing really that I noticed, not thinking, uh at all, that it was anything to do with long Covid. Um, you know, I assumed, like many of us, I guess, that you know, there was a sort of ICU background to being really ill with COVID, which would then lead to long COVID, and so it didn't even cross my mind, if I'm honest, in fact, I thought I just reflected that I'm probably getting old and probably getting unfit and need to do more exercise. So that, wrongly, as it turned out, was what I did I exercised more.

Jackie Baxter: 5:33

Yeah, well, it's interesting sorry to interrupt you, though that you said about, you know, having this, you, you know, presumably very mild version of the initial illness, um, and that sort of taste and smell must have later on, I suppose, tipped you off, because that was that sort of hallmark of covid but we didn't really know that until later on, did we?

Jackie Baxter: 5:58

and then also, as you were saying about the sort of you know, oh well, it's the people who were in hospital with the sort of severe acute infections, or they're going to be the people that are on ill longer term, whereas, you know, your COVID was, you know, quote unquote fairly insignificant. So therefore, you're going to be fine and actually as we started to learn more and more.

Jackie Baxter: 6:21

It was actually that I think the majority of people with long COVID were people that were at home rather than in hospital. Certainly it wasn't just the ICU patients, you know. They obviously had other issues coming out of hospital but uh, you know the sort of more.

Jackie Baxter: 6:39

You know, bog standard long covid, let's say, tended to be much more in the community, which I think is why it took kind of a long time to really get talked about a bit more, because those people were just at home busy being sick, and they weren't really seen by medical professionals until much later on because obviously everything was well in total chaos, wasn't it at that point?

Jackie Baxter: 7:02

um so yeah, um. So what were your? You said that you know you'd noticed your breathing, um, and and just sort of assumed that you needed to exercise more, which again would be, my reaction to so there's no judgment there. Um what, what else did you kind of experience into your sort of as you moved into your long covid experience?

Karl Robottom: 7:23

I suppose yeah, it was a very strange feeling, sort of like, you know, um, so I'd work the working week, you know, and get home and be sort of on the sofa for most of the time just staring out out of the window with this sort of breathing difficulty and just this sort of malaise, I suppose, of just not feeling like I had any energy At that point.

Karl Robottom: 7:51

Nothing like the really bad fatigue that I was to experience, you know, within a year or two of that, but just this sense that something's not right, you know, within me. I knew myself quite well really. I suppose I knew what I was capable of doing and it didn't feel right. And there was also, over the weeks and months, I noticed a sort of weight gain as well, fairly gradual to begin with, but it got quite, and you know it couldn't have been, you know what diet was the same, I was trying to exercise away from that and and, and it actually got got worse, um, so, yeah, so that was what how it sort of presented in the early months really of it was.

Jackie Baxter: 8:38

It was, yeah, um, breathlessness and um, and weight gain and then you said that you were to experience much worse fatigue. So I'm taking from that that things sort of got worse over time. Is it? Was that the kind of trajectory?

Karl Robottom: 8:54

they did. They did, yeah, although I went initially to the, well, I went several times to the doctors, as you can imagine, you know, with the weight gain, um, and as part of that my stomach was, was really distended, really swollen, um, and so they, they sort of started me on the you know the testing for was there something wrong with with the stomach, you know. So there were various endoscopies and colonoscopies that were that were going on, but of course it was all very it took such a long time to get the appointments because everything was stripped back, so waiting sort of months and weeks really to see anybody or do anything, but all the while sort of getting worse and worse. And I reached the point. It was the end of a school year, actually the very last day of the school year, and it had just got to a really bad point and I was sort of stressed at work as well, tired, you know the usual sort of thing.

Karl Robottom: 9:54

I had a really bad sort of experience Couldn't breathe, chest pains for for breath, and, and ended up on that day being taken to to any because it was um, yeah, it become quite, quite severe really, um. So, yeah, that was, that was quite a turning point. Uh, really, um, had lots of tests done on that day but, as you can imagine, even then that was 2021 they, they was they weren't even talking about it being linked to covid at all and suggesting, um, you know, heart tests on the heart and and the lungs, you know, to, uh, as a result of what had happened, really, yeah, well, now you know it's obviously good to get tests to rule things out, because you know we don't want to fall into the trap either of blaming everything on covid and long covid when actually there may well be something else underlying.

Jackie Baxter: 10:52

That's completely unrelated so those tests are important um but it's also interesting that you know even sort of a year, a year plus in to sort of covid and long covid that that connection still wasn't actually being made.

Jackie Baxter: 11:08

And I think even now for a lot of people I mean, you know it's it's maybe, you know, a lot of people are trying to pretend that there is no covid anymore and, you know, trying to erase the last five years and you know I can sort of imagine why we would want to erase the last five years, but at the same time, you know, trying to erase the last five years and you know I can sort of imagine why we would want to erase the last five years, but at the same time, you know, this is still the reality for a lot of people. But yeah, those connections between COVID and long COVID are still not being made, partly because of the lack of testing and partly because, still, that lack of kind of understanding. So I suppose in some ways, it's not surprising that that wasn't happening back in 2021 either no, that's right.

Karl Robottom: 11:46

No, I mean they did, they did sort of ecgs and they tested me quite um uh, thoroughly as you can. As you can imagine, they're quite a bit concerned. I think you know a previously healthy, fit chap, you know, presenting in a and e, just sort of out of the blue, like this um. But they did notice one thing, the. The only way they noticed it was when I was called to go in uh to see the uh, the doctor, and, and when I stood up I'd sort of wobbled a bit and she noticed that there was a, yeah, an issue with the uh. Let me get this right the raising blood pressure sorry, no, the drop in blood pressure and the raising heart rate, which I now know, you know, from having been told since then was was dysautonomia or symptoms around that um, but again, they didn't, they didn't link that to it. They just said that that was, you know, that's what they spotted, but that that was it, nothing more.

Karl Robottom: 12:42

Was was said so, um, yeah, and that then became quite a feature of you know how I was really um, but but sort of, you know, sent on to heart specialists and and lung specialists, but again, with what was going on and waiting times. I mean, you know they, they were actually closed for quite a long time. They weren't doing lung function tests at all, um, because of the nature of the test and the breathing into a tube and that sort of thing, so they wouldn't even, they wouldn't even run it for quite some time. So, yeah, it was quite a long state of of limbo and waiting with no results.

Karl Robottom: 13:24

Um, and I've got to say I'm really grateful to um, to the head teacher at my school. Actually I'll never forget his sort of understanding and you know, because I had no idea what it was, nor did the doctors. But he said, look, you know, just just do whatever it takes, whatever it needs you. You know, you've got time, you can, and I think that was, um, yeah, with no name to it at the time, nothing, you know, no condition I could name or give him. I think that was, uh, you know, I was really appreciate.

Jackie Baxter: 13:51

That helped a lot, I think yeah, and I think you know what the employers often get a really bad rep.

Jackie Baxter: 13:58

You know a bit like doctors um, because there there are some really bad ones out there. You know some doctors who have, you know, gaslit and invalidated people and in the same way, there are plenty of employers who have not treated people well and have not been empathetic and have not listened to them and have not done the best that they could. So I think it's really important to highlight that there are some really good ones out there, and it sounds like you had a good egg, um someone who was able to to do their best for you absolutely always checking in and uh, and more than once I think, um called me and said like you need to go home.

Karl Robottom: 14:35

He just he sent me home for my, you know, for my benefit. Really it was um. He recognized that, you know, all was not well. So, yeah, so it was. It was hard, yeah, that waiting, I suppose, waiting for tests, waiting to know you know what was, what was going on um inside, really, and I think that had a had a you know an effect, emotionally and physically, psychologically, really um as we all will have done, you know, googling and reading, and yeah, what does this mean?

Karl Robottom: 15:08

this heart rate and this, yeah, it just yeah, spiraled really.

Jackie Baxter: 15:12

So yeah yeah it's such a difficult thing, isn't it?

Jackie Baxter: 15:16

because you know we obviously want answers and we go to the people who we expect to get answers from. You know medical professionals, um, but you know, if they're not able to provide you with answers, whether it's because they don't know, or you're waiting for tests, or you know. Whatever the reason is, then you know you're stuck in this, as you described, limbo um, which is really it's a really uncomfortable place to be, isn't it you? You know, you just don't know. You don't know what's going on in your body. Your body doesn't feel like your own. It's not, you know, it's just not right.

Jackie Baxter: 15:48

You can't describe what's going on. You don't know what's actually happening, but you know that it's not right. And that's when we kind of find ourselves turning to Dr Google, isn't it out of desperation? But then you know, dr google is not a place that we want to be looking at.

Karl Robottom: 16:01

but also there's nowhere else to go. No, no, that's right. No, no, no, and I think, yeah, being being, you know then, inactive, not able to get out and about, I think that that spirals into sitting and scrolling and you know, it just sort of feeds in into its, into itself, really, I suppose. So, yeah, that was a hard time, um, and I suppose, um, you know, that was a good 18 months, I suppose, between being told I needed, um, those tests done, for them to then be done, and then nine months for the results from the lung function test to return, yeah, which was, um, yeah, and there's no, you know, no judgment, no, no blame no criticism, but just the nature of of the service at the time and what was going on, um, yeah, but yeah, it was, um, it was a long wait, um, only to be told that there was.

Karl Robottom: 17:42

There was nothing wrong with the, with the lungs themselves. So, as you know, as many of us I suppose has been, you know these sort of organs, uh, in many ways absolutely fine, but clearly there's something not not right in there yeah, because I I remember having this experience where I sort of had probably some of the same tests that you did, you know, the barrage of blood tests and you know, come in and do this and we'll check that out.

Jackie Baxter: 18:11

And I almost wanted them to find something, because I thought if they find an abnormality in something, then that gives me an answer and something, then that gives me an answer. Um, you know, and you know, I I didn't want them to find anything, but I sort of did on some level. Um, because the alternative was that everything comes back normal, which is exactly what happened and all that's happened to most people. Um, and then you're like okay, well, now what? And the doctors are like uh, or the majority are, and then, and then we're back to doing our own research again, aren't we?

Karl Robottom: 18:42

which you know is is sometimes great and there's sometimes not certainly can land us in sort of yeah, sort of spirals of of doom in some ways, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly that point, and I was very similar, just almost hoping that they would find this thing, that then I could say, yeah, this is this is what this is, this is what, what is making me like this, and then could deal with it. I suppose that was the yeah, you know, there was a way forward and something to sort of be able to tell people. But you know, yeah, obviously not not to be um. So I think by that point, by the time I'd finally received the lung function test results, I'd obviously done a bit of research and was really considering you know what was it covid, all that way back and you know, therefore, could this be um? You know a consequence of that? And so I I put it to him as he gave me the test results.

Karl Robottom: 19:39

I said, you know a consequence of that, and so I, I, I put it to him as he gave me the test results. I said, you know, obviously relieved that there was nothing. But then, you know frustration, that and he said I think that's a reasonable suggestion, and so it was him that then suggested that I, I joined the long COVID clinic, which I did a couple of months later in uh, in leeds yeah, so the the sort of it was almost self-diagnosed.

Karl Robottom: 20:10

That was then sort of confirmed by someone else, so it was sort of you that had to do that legwork it was really yeah, that's right and and you know, and all of the result, the you know, the stomach issues, the heart that had been measured completely and the blood and the lungs, everything had not thrown anything up and I think at that point they thought it was reasonable to take those steps. Really, yeah.

Jackie Baxter: 20:36

I mean, that's why it's such a difficult diagnosis, isn't it? I mean, obviously long COVID is not the only diagnosis that is a sort of difficult one, but it's this diagnosis of exclusion, isn't it? I mean, that's obviously long covid is not the only diagnosis that is is a sort of difficult one, but it's this diagnosis of exclusion, isn't it?

Jackie Baxter: 20:47

you know, you exclude everything else, yeah, and then it's the kind of like well, there's nothing else left, so we'll put you in this bucket of you know, unexplained mystery illnesses you know, along with me cfs and you know sort of other other illnesses of those sort of similar um similar things, and you know sort of other other illnesses of those sort of similar um similar things. And you know it's sort of like, well, okay, at least I have a label. Um, I have a diagnosis or a sort of half diagnosis, but that's not useful unless it actually gives me some sort of pathway or diagnosis or action plan. Okay, like well, great, you're giving me a label. Now what do I do? Um, so what? What did you start trying? Or did you have people suggesting things? Um what?

Karl Robottom: 21:31

what did the next sort of phase of what do I do now look like for you? Yeah, and this was about the point when I, when I joined the long covid clinic in that February, this was about the point when I did start to think, okay, I'm going to have to, um, you know, take this into my own hands really because, um, bless them, they were wonderful. You know, I really appreciate the people there, um, and the sessions that I went to online, and but what I very quickly noticed, really, was that the things that they were advising were things that I'd already researched myself previously and was probably already starting to do, uh, things like breathing techniques, relaxation, um, that sort of thing, um, although I did find, eventually, a lot, a lot more refined and a lot better things in in the end. But you know, at the time, um, and yes, so I started on the path of trying to instigate my own things. One thing that I stumbled across and this I don't know, I'll never know whether it, you know, it sort of clicked that dial or whether it was, but I'd read a lot about, uh, cold water, immersion showers, that sort of thing, and thought, well, why why not? Why, why on earth not? Let's, let's give this a go. And the first opportunity I had to do that was in the February. Uh, yes, yeah, uh, me and my family. It is a very cold month and what and what and what better month to do? Cold water exposure.

Karl Robottom: 23:09

So we went down to Devon to see my parents who live there and stayed in this sort of cliff top little chalet and they've got this wonderful pool, swimming pool in a resort called Westwood Ho that fills with seawater when the tide comes in and when the tide goes out it's left as a swimming pool, a saltwater swimming pool. So I would go down there about seven in the morning and frost on the ground, just, yeah, t and fleece, uh, and just get into that water. And I'll never forget the, the feeling. And you know, I'm sure the people have tried it and felt that it was horrendous, but there was just this sort of feeling of peace, um, and you know whether it was.

Karl Robottom: 23:57

There was a connection there, a family connection. Maybe that had something to do with it, but I just really felt that that was making a difference and I did it every morning and every evening during our sort of five to seven day stay there and thought this, this is something that I should probably try and replicate. So, um, uh, we have rivers in Leeds, but I don't think I really fancy sort of jumping, hopping into them and the canal, uh, so so it was cold, cold showers every morning from then on, without fail. Really that's yeah, started that path of trying, you know uh, something, anything just to to shift it forward really yeah, I love that.

Jackie Baxter: 24:42

I mean I um listeners will know um. Cold water was a huge part of my recovery as well um.

Jackie Baxter: 24:49

You know it was it was something that you know, it was sort of the third big thing that worked for me, um, and yeah, you know that that I mean it doesn't work for everybody, for many different reasons, but for me, again, I'm an outdoor person. You know, nature is important, doing some sort of activity outdoors is important, and I couldn't get up the hills, I couldn't do the big long cycles, I couldn't go running. But getting into the cold water would give me some of that kind of outdoor adventure feeling and, yes, that sense of peace as you get into the water, which, which doesn't sound logical, does it? Because you feel like you should be screaming, but it just you. It just turns off the busy part of your brain, doesn't it? It gives you that sense of relaxation in the body and, yeah, I can, it's hard to describe to someone who hasn't felt it, but yeah absolutely completely relates um and, and how special that you were able to do that in a beautiful location with family as well.

Karl Robottom: 25:54

You know that connection. Yeah, yeah, that was important. Yeah, yeah, um, so that, yeah, so, like I said, you know that that then became showers, I mean of increasing length, you know, without being so, but just in the morning before work, that was, you know and then read a lot of work and, um, I I listened a lot to andrew huberman, the huberman lab podcast, I think it's a huge fan yeah yeah, he's brilliant and he had.

Karl Robottom: 26:24

He had a guest on who, um, is it something of an expert of cold, cold water exposure, susanna soberg, I think her name is a danish scientist who advised that the end with the cold, I think so warm and then cold. So again, that's what I was, what I was doing, and that that, really, that really helped. But you know, with the caveat that it was still quite, quite bad. It was still the dysautonomia, you know it. It didn't sort of fix it completely, but it did for that those precious sort of minutes, hours, maybe really, maybe really give some relief. I think that was the, yeah, that was the feeling at the time.

Jackie Baxter: 27:07

Yeah.

Karl Robottom: 27:09

And then, I suppose, you know, just trying more and more things, really, so the Wim Hof style breathing that I tried, obviously not before getting into any water, or just just to make that clear.

Karl Robottom: 27:26

You know that I understand the dangers of of combining those two, but but that that was something which which seemed to help as well. Um, and then again, you know, because I like to compound these things, put them together, you know, rather than do them in isolation, I think at one point I had a morning protocol of about six separate things that I was doing. But when I'd come home and I was forced to come home about 4 o'clock in the afternoon because I was just wiped out, really just crushing fatigue, but I'd regularly try something called yoga nidra, which is another thing that I got from the andrew hooberman podcast, uh, and I find I found that really refreshing. Um, you know, just sort of drifting off and, uh, working up, um, still a bit groggy, still a bit tired, but there was something that had happened during that time that you know it seemed to make a difference. So, yeah, there was lots of things going on with the name.

Jackie Baxter: 28:32

Yeah, the I mean the yoga nidra is amazing, isn't it? I? I can't remember exactly the quote, but there's something about 20 minutes of yoga nidra is equivalent to several hours worth of sleep which is amazing, isn't it, when you think about it, so it's so powerful.

Jackie Baxter: 28:57

But for me it was something that I found really difficult until I'd fixed my breathing, and that was something that I had to do first and again as a breathing coach. I find it very interesting that you found the Wim Hof helpful, because that's something I would usually advise people to stay absolutely the hell away from in non-COVID recovery. So it's interesting that that did work for you on some level.

Karl Robottom: 29:23

Yeah, it's all very foggy now. I definitely did start doing that, but I'm now wondering whether it it morphed into something different, but I can't remember the name. You see, I like the idea of the breathing and I and and got that, but then I think there was some other method and, you know, maybe the box breathing or those those sort of ideas. So yeah, I don't, uh, I don't remember exactly, but yeah, definitely aware that that breathing purposefully and consciously, you know was was doing something yeah, absolutely um.

Jackie Baxter: 29:59

So so you were kind of doing you know lots and lots of different things. You know fingers and lots of different pies, almost um, and they were all kind of helping, um so, but but none of them had, kind of, you know, got you the whole way, or you know, tossed you over the finish line, so no, not at all how did that?

Karl Robottom: 30:21

look, yeah, one other thing was um electrolytes every morning as well yes, which I realized was meant to, you know, help with the disorder dysautonomia, um, and it kind of did. But you know, um also tried a ton of supplements, um, I was probably taking about seven at one point, but actually I, I just I took them all away and didn't feel any different. So for me, you know, I I didn't feel like they were having much of an effect really, um, and went into that that summer, um, feeling, yeah, just just pretty pretty bad really, um, feeling yeah, just just pretty pretty bad really, um, not not not great.

Karl Robottom: 31:08

Lots, lots of fatigue, lots of dysautonomia, uh, couldn't get up without sort of swaying, you know, if I was out or whatever, uh, falling asleep, you know, um, and in all my searches and and various sort of, you know, down the rabbit hole, I came across, came across an offer of a clinical trial through Sheffield Hallam University, which isn't far from here, just an hour down the motorway, and so I thought what have I got to lose? So I got in touch, put myself forward for that, and I can only say that you know that that stroke of luck was was the thing ultimately, which which took it the whole way really, um, so it was a three-month trial, um, and I had a load of tests at the beginning um, the usual sort of blood tests and, uh, physical sort of tests, but also a cognitive test as well, which used the cambridge um app on a on an ipad, um, which and I was feeling really, really rough at the time and actually fell asleep doing the doing the cognitive test. I was that, that drained, and that said it all. Really, I think that.

Jackie Baxter: 32:26

I was gonna say that that kind of gives you your answer, doesn't it?

Karl Robottom: 32:29

yeah, that's right that I uh, no wonder that the scores were really bad. You know, I think three of the scores put me in the bottom 7% nationally, not just the long COVID, but nationally for those tests, such was the brain fog and cognitive decline really. I suppose that happened. But the treatment was a product called Simproof, which I'm aware people have tried, you know, and it's available online and people have can buy. Uh, it's quite expensive but, you know, obviously it came, it came with the, with the trial, uh, and I received three month sort of um batch of it to take and, you know, and I'm aware of people who continually take it and it helps a bit but didn't do anything earth-shattering.

Karl Robottom: 33:55

But for me, that three-month period got me to the point of last January so January 24, of being, you know, markedly improved, really, to the point where I was able to get back on the bike and, you know, get out and cycle, which was, yeah, which was amazing, and I'd still had put on quite a lot of weight. Um, you know, in that time, and I think I was about three stone above my usual, you know, which I didn't. I didn't judge because I don't like judging other people, so I couldn't, you know, judge myself for that, but I knew it wasn't, you know, as a um, and yeah, I just used them, sort of fasting, along with the sim proof, um, and that gradually came down as well, as, you know, improving the symptoms. So you know what, maybe this bespoke to me, maybe, you know, um, yeah, certainly linked to that sort of weight gain, but but for me that was what, what got me back to maybe not complete baseline, but but certainly a massive improvement wow and did um.

Jackie Baxter: 35:19

You said you were doing the fasting alongside the simprove. Um was that? Did you continue taking the simprove after the three months, or was that while you were doing the trial?

Karl Robottom: 35:28

um, I did. I did actually, yeah, because part of the trial was a um and and, of course, I didn't know whether I was on the control or the, do you see, until until I went back after the three months. And so the deal was, if it was a control, um, or rather, if it was, uh, just juice, you know, not, not the product, uh, they would then give you four months worth of it for free. There's a thank you for doing it. Uh, if, if you were taking the simpru for three months, which which I was, then they'd give you a month free as a token of that. So I continued to take that, so effectively, took it for four months, and that really helps.

Karl Robottom: 36:17

And then I thought, okay, so what am I going to do next? And I looked up the bacteria that were involved and realised that it was quite similar to homemade kefir. So I bought some kefir granules or crystals, whatever you call it, online and started making my own kefir. So I could sort of, you know, maintain that healthy gut microbiome, that healthy gut microbiome. See, if I could keep the uh, keep that going, because I was. I was really concerned at that time that it could well, just, you know, descend back until I was so every day. I was sort of you know grateful just for feeling relatively normal just for that short period of time and hoping that you know I could, could extend it as long as I could really yeah, and then things from there, they, they continued to improve.

Jackie Baxter: 37:10

Or was there a kind of big, big moment for you?

Karl Robottom: 37:14

yeah, I suppose sort of yeah, that January, uh, when I've done the three month trial and I've been doing a little bit of cycling and realized that it wasn't sort of putting me under and I wasn't having massive effects from it, I thought this, this is it.

Karl Robottom: 37:28

Now, you know, I feel really, really changed and throughout all of it, you know, the one reason I wanted to get back to some sort of baseline was just to be able to be active with my kids and with family.

Karl Robottom: 37:46

Line was just to be able to be active with with my kids and with family, and if that's all I could do then, then I'd be happy, you know, to go walking, kicking a ball around, going for a run, you know, with my kids then, and that's all I wanted, and just so started, uh, very slowly, sort of walking, which became walk, jog, and then I thought, you know, I've got to do something to mark this now very carefully because I don't want to slip back.

Karl Robottom: 38:11

And so I started doing a couch to marathon program, believe it or not, such was my uh, yeah, uh, keenness to sort of mark it by saying, like this is the end. You know, this is the end point. I'm not, I'm not going back from here. Uh, so within about I don't know about six months of starting that, I then run what was my my first marathon. I'd never run a marathon before, although I'd run a lot before a lot of half marathons, 10ks, triathlons never, never actually run a marathon. So yeah, that was uh quite a quite a moment really to do that that's amazing and it sounds like you know.

Jackie Baxter: 38:51

I mean, obviously there's a lot of, um you know, controversy or not even just controversy. It just doesn't work, um, you know, to get people to do graded exercise therapy um, but so it sounds like you know you'd laid all this groundwork.

Jackie Baxter: 39:05

You'd done, you know you'd done the breathing, you'd done the yoga nidra, you'd done the simprove, you'd done the fasting, you'd done all the other things that you'd mentioned. Um, and then you know you, you were gradually able to increase that activity from a person who was actually very unfit and deconditioned because you hadn't done anything for years, um, you know, moving back from that kind of unfit and deconditioned because you hadn't done anything for years, um, you know moving back from that kind of unfit, because I had a similar experience, um, where I thought, okay, I'm better, I'm going to go for a run.

Jackie Baxter: 39:32

So I put on my running shoes, ran out the door and within about 30 seconds I thought I was going to die and I thought, what's wrong, I'm better, um. And then I thought, well, I haven't run for three years, of course I can't run a 5k, um. So I had to sort of go through that similar experience where I built up that fitness from that kind of you know, unfit person who I'd never been before, uh, to this person who was like, okay, I'm an unfit well person, well, that's okay, I can fix that. Um, so, um, but yeah, I think we need to call this episode Long COVID to Marathon. That's one hell of a way to celebrate.

Karl Robottom: 40:06

Yeah.

Jackie Baxter: 40:07

That's amazing.

Karl Robottom: 40:09

It was. I was really pleased, yeah, and just, you know, just to put it in perspective, I did have the sort of the ups and downs that people experienced throughout those three years where you think, oh, I feel a lot better now and try something, and then, and then it knocks you, you know, knocks you back.

Karl Robottom: 40:29

so I, I'm well aware of this, you know the notion of graded exercise and all you should try and do and and it's, it's absolute, you know it's absolute nonsense, because it doesn't work your body tells you that you're, you're not ready for it and and I was told that many, many times, you know in along that way, um, but yeah again, and you know, I'm completely aware that luck, time, fate, whatever it was that that took me to that, and whether all of those things that I tried, you know, were not the the answer but just happened to, you know, nudge it along. I don't know. But yeah, I did think this, yeah, I have now shifted this and I'm ready to to be active again.

Jackie Baxter: 41:14

So this, this is my time. Well, it was it was all of those things that came together. That was your jigsaw puzzle and some of those pieces were probably bigger pieces than others, but they all came together to, to, to whatever then worked um, which then meant that you could safely increase that activity at a rate and at a time it was safe for your body, rather than doing it prescriptively to someone else's timeline um you know, it sounds like you really tuned into your body and listened to your body and did it at the right time.

Jackie Baxter: 41:46

You know safely, um and uh and it, it worked um so, um, so what? What does life look like now? Um, you are. What about a year on?

Karl Robottom: 41:59

ish, yeah, just over a year, that's right. That was january 24, so just over a year on. So a few months later I'd sort of uh, planned in, I would try and do another marathon, um, and these are just marathon distances, that they weren't races, they're just routes that I had on on strava and knew that it would take me to 26 miles. So I did another one in the autumn, um, and the ultimate plan was that, uh, there's a, there's a run in bristol that I've always wanted to do, um as a challenge and um, before I get to the point where it's, you know a little bit too, I'm at the age where it's too much of a challenge, which is a 45 mile run around the outskirts of the city, um, known as the green man challenge. Yeah, and as it stands, hopefully I'll be okay to do that in in may this year.

Karl Robottom: 42:56

So that was that was the sort of the goal that I was aiming for. Yeah, and it, to be honest, it's going to be a, a run and a walk. You I'm not going to break any records, but just to get out there around my you know the city where I grew up and see people and places. You know that will sort of mark it for me, as you know where the journey has sort of got me to really, yeah. Oh, that's amazing.

Jackie Baxter: 43:27

Um, I'm so excited for you.

Jackie Baxter: 43:29

Um, so maybe just to finish, you know we touched earlier on how you know, obviously this is a very physically difficult journey. Um, you know it's physically uncomfortable and horrifying in so many ways, um, but also you know you mentioned how hard mentally it was, you know, to not be able to do the things that you want to do. Um, you know that the exercise obviously was a big part of your kind of mental health. Um, so you know we can get into these really, really dark um kind of places, can't we? When we maybe feel like we're never going to get better or that things are getting worse, or I thought I was getting better and now I'm not, I'm back in that crash kind of thing. Um, so I was just wondering what, what would you tell yourself, um, with the perspective of hindsight? Uh, what would you tell Carl from two years ago, from three years ago? What do you think he would want to hear?

Karl Robottom: 44:28

Yeah, fascinating Because, of course, you know, because of the situation you're in, your sort of negative stories you tell yourself, is that this is it? And I suppose that you know, to tell yourself that there is hope, that it will be okay. I suppose, suppose, which is easy in hindsight, isn't it easy sitting here now knowing that it was okay and that for many people it it isn't, and and that you know that's uh, that's something that I I sort of bear in mind a lot. But, yeah, just to stick with it, because I think, yeah, the you know that that sort of spiral that you get into ultimately is, although completely understandable, you know, is maybe not helpful in a sense to sort of keep positive.

Karl Robottom: 45:19

I remember, actually, because I wrote down a few things and I think one of the low points was when I joined the low long covid clinic and had to do the sit to stand test for a minute minute sit to stand test. I remember doing 10 in a minute and I was wiped out and I thought oh, that's not too bad, you know. But then I looked up the norms, I looked up the, you know, and the age group norms and and was just, you know, that's that. That's really, really not good and it felt like that. That was sort of you know, ground zero or whatever you determine was that that it can only, it can only get better from here, because I don't get much worse.

Jackie Baxter: 46:01

And then you know, fortunately, hopefully with all the the input along the way, it, um, it did it's so difficult when you're in in the depths of it, isn't it sometimes to imagine that things can get better? And you know to keep putting in the consistent effort of the little things um, but I think that's one of these reasons why recovery stories are so important, because they are evidence that the little things do add up over time with that consistency, um, to become bigger things, you know, to the point where people are recovering um like yourself and like me and like so many others.

Jackie Baxter: 46:35

So, yeah, thank you so much for coming along today and for sharing your story. Um, good luck with your 45 mile run. Um, that sounds amazing thank you send me a picture, uh, when you've done it. And, um, yeah, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's been so lovely connecting oh, not at all.

Karl Robottom: 46:56

Thank you for having me and thanks for everything you do as well. You're doing a great work absolutely my pleasure.