178 - Rebuilding Safety: from Couch to Mountains - Alisha's Recovery Story

Alishia shares her powerful Long Covid recovery journey—from a highly active farm worker to being couch-bound for over a year, and ultimately back to health through finding safety in her body.

• Worked long weeks in manual farm labour & enjoyed being active before catching Covid in 2020
• Experienced extreme anxiety, heart palpitations, shortness of breath after first infection
• Second COVID infection in 2021 led to complete debilitation with 15+ symptoms
• Functional medicine doctors provided multiple diagnoses & supplement protocols without improvement
• Discovered mind-body work through Dan Buglio and Dr. Sarno
• Somatic tracking meditation, self-Reiki, creating feelings of safety helped
• Learned to set boundaries, let go of perfectionism, & practice self-compassion
• Gradually reintroduced short walks & yoga sessions, surrounding them with joy
• Session with coach Rob Ensor helped eliminate remaining symptoms
• Now works as a mind-body coach & works part-time in farming
• Maintains balance between activity & rest, continuing to practice boundaries & self-care

If you're struggling with Long Covid or ME/CFS, remember that wherever you are in this moment, you are completely lovable right now—your worth isn't tied to your productivity or ability to function.

Links: 

Alisha website 

Dan Buglio - 24 ways to feel safe

Rob Ensor

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Chapters

• 1:50 Welcome and Life Before Illness
• 4:23 Initial COVID and Early Symptoms
• 8:35 The Second Infection and Collapse
• 14:30 The Medical Merry-Go-Round
• 20:00 Discovering the Mind-Body Connection
• 28:11 Tools for Creating Safety
• 32:56 The Healing Process Begins
• 40:03 Final Healing Breakthroughs
• 45:32 Life After Recovery

Transcript

Jackie Baxter: 0:55

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Long Covid Podcast. I am delighted to be joined today by Alicia, who's here to share her recovery story. So I love recovery stories. I'm so excited to hear what Alicia's journey was, what worked, what didn't, and yeah, so a very warm welcome to the podcast today. It's so lovely to meet you.

Alisha Braswell: 1:20

Hi Jackie. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited to chat and share my story.

Jackie Baxter: 1:28

Yeah. So before we get into all of that, can you just say a little bit about yourself and maybe what life was like before you became unwell?

Alisha Braswell: 1:39

Sure. So I live in the mountains and I've lived in the mountains for a while now, and so my whole adult life has been pretty active. I love to hike and walk and run. I've been, I was a pretty big runner before I got sick, which I still run now, but I was never competitive or anything. I just enjoy running. And I started working on an organic vegetable farm right after I graduated college 10 years ago and fell in love with that, and so for eight full years seasons I worked manual labor on farms. So I was very, you know active job, 40 hours a week, and sometimes I would still go, you know, run or bike after working outside all day. So very active lifestyle, just loving to be outside, and yeah, I think that's about it. I loved yoga and all of the things, and then I got COVID in 2020. So that's when things shifted.

Jackie Baxter: 3:03

I can totally relate to a lot of what you were saying about, you know, the outside just being a part of your life, that you can't imagine it not being part of your life, kind of thing. And then, yeah, obviously everything went a bit wrong or took a side quest, let's say so what did that kind of initial illness kind of look like for you, and how did that then move into what then became Long Covid, although you didn't know that at the time, presumably, yes, so I had finished working on a farm and I moved across the country in actually, 2019.

Alisha Braswell: 3:48

And that really started. Just life stress Not knowingly that would be my journey, but moving, you know, finding a new job, meeting new people, all of those things and I did actually really love where I left, so it was also hard for in that aspect. And so then the pandemic hit not too long after I moved. So just just a lot of changes and you know life stress and new relationships, ending relationships, all of that. And so in 2020, I got COVID for the first time, right after moving in with someone new. Again, there was a lot of moves in that year and a half and so that was really hard to be.

Alisha Braswell: 4:46

I was in a new relationship in a new home and in two weeks after moving in, I got COVID and I was very sick the first time. I just with all the COVID things. I was sick for about a month and then it took me about a month to heal what I thought was healing and so I went back to a farm job and that for a whole, about a whole summer, so almost a year. I experienced extreme anxiety. For the first time in my life. I had, you know, heart palpitations and shortness of breath and just really not understanding what was going on, like I felt like I healed. But then I knew something was off, since I had COVID and I definitely started being obsessed with the sensations obsessed and worried, I guess. And my partner had it with me and I kept asking him like are you fine, do you feel the same after COVID? And he was like, yeah, I'm fine. I had it with me and I kept asking him like are you fine, do you feel the same after COVID? And he was like yeah, I'm fine, I had it and it's gone.

Alisha Braswell: 6:07

So working on a farm was really hard for the first time ever I love working outside on the farm and I honestly hated it. I really didn't like going to work. I was scared of the sun, I was scared of being hot, I felt like I was going to pass out all the time, and so I did go to the doctor just to get like a regular checkup during that why I felt so off, and there was days that I had to leave work because I just didn't feel well. A few times I came home and had a panic attack. I had like my first panic attacks I've ever had. And so just life was hard because I was pretty much just living in fear of sensations and extreme anxiety. And so I was doing things through that year. Outwardly I looked fine, but I was not fine on the inside. So I did start things like seeing a counselor doing work for anxiety and just none of that really helped that much because I still had that underlying belief that something was very wrong, I think, feeding that fear.

Alisha Braswell: 7:35

And so then I got COVID a second time in 2021. And that is what led me to live on the couch for a year and a half, so the second time getting COVID. You know I was again pretty sick, but I just it was like my body shut down that second time and that's what led to, you know, at least 15 symptoms. I I had extreme fatigue, you know extreme anxiety, and then I developed a lot of stomach issues. You know just everything like bloating, constipation, constipation, burning, tingling, dizziness. It was just like you know, I lived on the couch because I really could not do anything, and so for about a month I was that sick and then I realized I needed help.

Alisha Braswell: 8:41

So that started the journey of going to the doctors and I did actually start off with a functional medicine doctor, since just the regular doctor in the past said nothing was wrong. So that led to like all of the tests and pretty much nothing was wrong. Some of my you know levels were a little off, like I did. You know. I did go on some hormone supplements and stuff which probably helped regulate things, but that also started a big supplement routine. Like I went home with 20 supplements like the first day and, gosh, that journey was rough, to be honest. So that whole thing was stressful because there was really no answer. It was just like you need to take all this stuff to fix all these things and I was completely confused. I still was, you know, like on board, like okay, if he's telling me to do this, I'm going to do this to heal. So there was like moments of thinking this is it. But that lasted for maybe six months and I felt just awful the whole time and confused.

Alisha Braswell: 10:02

And then I got tested for Lyme's and so basically that functional medicine doctor told me that I could have long COVID or I could have Lyme's, and so that was really confusing also and scary, because every time I went to the doctor he would say I'm not sure if I should treat you for Lyme's or long COVID and it was just this big, confusing thing and scary to you know, there's lots of fear out there about both. So, you know, at one point I thought I had both. So I thought I was battling Lyme's and long COVID for a long time. So you know, then we did all you know continual routines for all of that and then I did all this gut testing and focused on the gut and basically at a certain point I realized the doctor wasn't helping. So I went to another doctor, um, and that doctor then told me um, I also needed to. You know, I also had Epstein bar, um, heavy metals, mold, heavy metals, mold. Basically, I needed to detox from everything you can think of and parasites, if I didn't say that already. So I started with her and did a whole new detox thing to get rid of everything I just listed, plus more, and I really didn't see much improvements. I think I had moments of hope through that journey, because you want to believe in what you're doing, and so I did that detox program for about a year and then through that whole time I was couch bound, still not functional in life, experiencing all the sensations and fear.

Alisha Braswell: 12:05

And my turning point was when I first heard Dan Buglio on Raylan's channel and I started following him and I read Dr Sarno's book, the Mind-Body Prescription.

Alisha Braswell: 12:25

Read Dr Sarno's book, the Mind-Body Prescription, and what got my attention was Dan Buglio talking about people with chronic fatigue syndrome being able to do like a certain amount of exercise but then not being able to do like this other thing, so kind of like pointing out other thing. So kind of like pointing out kind of like that mind body connection. So I realized I had little things like I would not feel well if I walked up my stairs, but then if I walked like to this certain part in my yard I felt fine and so that started getting like my mind thinking about that side. So from there I continued the detox, supplements, doctor stuff, but then really started to dive into the mind body work and slowly went off the supplements, slowly stopped the doctor stuff and then just continued the mind-body work of really calming my nervous system. I can go into that next of what I actually did, but that piece is what brought me calmness and helped me to heal.

Jackie Baxter: 13:40

Yeah, and it sounds like that whole kind of period. Up until that point. I think you said the word confused quite a few times and I'm thinking like, yeah, you know in that moment, or many series of moments as you're going through, that you know we don't understand what's going on with our body, because how could we? We've never experienced anything like this before. We're not taught this stuff in school. Our doctors don't understand it, so we're totally confused, we don't understand what's going on.

Jackie Baxter: 14:14

The symptoms and the experiences that we're having are really scary. Some of them, you know, none of them are comfortable, but some of them are downright terrifying. And then we, you know, often have anxiety kind of, on top of that, which is very understandable but not helpful. And, you know, the whole experience is absolutely terrifying and it's kind of compounded by this not knowing, not understanding, worrying about the future, no one being able to help. And you said as well, you know, that you might have looked okay on the outside, but you know, and I think that's one of I don't know one of the main struggles, but it's certainly one of the things that makes it very difficult to connect with others during this journey is that you do look fine a lot of the time. You know you look relatively normal, um, but you, you know people don't see you on your worst days, um. But also you know the illness is not very obviously visible, um, and I think you know that is one of the things that makes it so difficult for people to understand it if they haven't had that experience. So I think you know that whole experience that you had obviously is very personal to you. But I think a lot of people will be able to relate to so many bits of what you were saying, whether it's symptoms or experiences or how you were feeling, kind of as you went through and you know it sounded like almost every time you went to a doctor you picked up a new diagnosis, which you know must have been. You know, we can sort of laugh about it now, but at the time it must have just been so overwhelming.

Jackie Baxter: 15:58

So, yeah, you said that you sort of started to discover, you know, this whole other world almost, isn't it? You know? And it's quite a mindset shift, or quite a shift of more than just mindset, isn't it From? You know the traditional medical model, let's call it to? You know things like the nervous system that we don't get taught about that. People don't understand and like why is it that it's 2025 and regular doctors don't know this stuff? I mean, a lot of them do, but so many of them don't, um, so I'd love to hear more, a bit more about how you sort of started exploring that world and and what it was that sort of started to actually help you, because it sounded like up until that point, you know you'd been doing all this stuff and it hadn't really made any difference yes, and I'll just reiterate that that confusion and fear just kind of loops into itself.

Alisha Braswell: 17:04

You know, yeah, all the way up until I discovered this mind-body work, and so I will say that before I found the mind-body work specifically, I did start to really take a deep dive within and I journaled a ton, but I also am a journaler anyways, I just love to journal. It helps me. So I journaled my heart out through that journey. I also did energy work and emotional work and counseling, and so for me, a big shift in learning about the mind-body work. Also, I listened to Rebecca Tol and she really helped me. Her story helped me so much, and the recovery stories, and so the shift that began to help was believing that I was not broken. Because when you're in those moments of feeling these awful sensations and you're thinking that all this stuff might be wrong with you, that's scary. But if you're able to realize, oh, actually nothing's wrong, just that shift began to calm my nervous system. And so from there it's definitely a journey to. It's a big journey to make all of those shifts, but some specific tools that helped me First of all was Rebecca Toland's somatic tracking meditation, and so I started to do that every day, and it really helped me in extreme times of discomfort to hear her calming voice telling me that I'm safe in that moment. And so the somatic tracking for me helped me to stop and breathe and really be with the sensations. And so being with the sensations as they're happening and starting to believe that you're safe in those moments, that just is a huge shift. I'm a mind-body coach now and I really try to tell my clients that all of those moments count, like if you, when I just did the somatic tracking for you know the 10 minutes and I started to feel safe in that moment. All of those shifts are you know what built, build on each other. And so also, I did a lot of calming meditations and for me I loved them, and so you know, I think, that through these journeys, finding anything that brings you calmness is, you know, whatever makes you feel calm, and so, like I felt the best during the meditations because it brought me so much calmness.

Alisha Braswell: 20:30

Um, so I did a lot of guided meditations and reiki and for me that was extremely calming. Also, I had I would do like two hours a day of self reiki. Yeah, it's an it's amazing to think about now because I don't do two hours a day now, but it was so calming and also being in the course of Reiki like I did an online course for all three different levels and some other just energy work, continuing education and it was so fascinating to me and so that was the first thing that I started to focus on Other than, even though Reiki is for your health, I was really more just interested in the energy learning about it all. I wasn't doing it to fix myself, so for me, it was my first thing that brought me joy and shifted my mind to some other interest and engaged my mind in something besides obsessing about my health. So that was a big thing to also.

Alisha Braswell: 21:55

I also read a ton. I started to read just to learn and you know, and storybooks just bringing other things in, and then, you know, thinking about my health, and so then kind of with that was also bringing in joy again, and so I share a lot that I. Dan Buglio has a nice video of 24 things to create feelings of safety, and one of those is to smile, and I really started making myself smile because I I hadn't smiled in so long, like, and it felt extremely ungenuine the first time I smiled. So I, like, secretly, would make myself smile when I was alone. I'd just smile and it really, I mean, it makes a difference, it makes you feel a little bit better.

Alisha Braswell: 22:44

And so, yeah, I started to, you know, watch things that brought me joy. So the joy in itself and engaging in tasks brought my brain into engaging into something which teaches you that you're safe, versus that fear loop that happens through that journey. So, yeah, like I said, it was those are a lot of the tools and it was a lot of patience, a lot of self-love, and one more piece of through that journey is learning that I'm an empath and so I took some, like I read some books about being an empath and I learned a lot about setting boundaries. Saying no I mean setting boundaries was a huge piece through my journey and is now also continued through my life, and I have much stronger boundaries now and much more self-time. Um, yeah, self-love and self-compassion through that journey is a big piece also yeah, and I can so much relate to what you're saying about boundaries.

Jackie Baxter: 24:49

I I had never said no to anything in my life, I don't think. And then, suddenly long, covid comes along and you kind of have to say no, but you still kind of force yourself to say yes, um, and I remember the first time that I genuinely said no to something, um, sort of post-recovery. It was like I could, but I don't wanna, so I so I'm going to say no. It felt so liberating. Yes, whether you actually really genuinely want to, or maybe, more importantly, if you actually have the capacity to take it on, um, whether you're unwell or not, um, but yeah, I mean, I love so much about what you're saying. You know that the idea of I'm not broken, I'm just dysfunctional, um, you know, and and that is huge, isn't it? Because I think you know we do feel like we're broken, um, because, well, of course I'm broken, nothing works um but it's that kind of idea of, okay, it's not, you know, broken, um.

Jackie Baxter: 26:04

Broken suggests kind of permanence, doesn't it? Whereas dysfunctional suggests, you know, not permanence, whatever the word for that is. You know, and that actually there are things that we can do, and you know even those little things. I mean, you know, you mentioned smiling. You know there is precious little to smile about when you're in the middle of this. You know, because it is the worst experience, certainly, that I have ever had in my life, and I think you know many people will feel the same. So, okay, what on earth is there to smile about? But actually, you know those little things, even though, as you say, they feel really ridiculous to start with, they do help and it's finding the ones that work for you. Okay, maybe smiling doesn't work, okay, what can you do? Those little tiny things? And the little tiny things they add up. Like you said said, everything counts. So every time you do one of those little things, it is starting to help, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time.

Jackie Baxter: 27:02

And I think you know that's what I talk about with with people so often it's consistency. It's not that you've got to do those big things, it's actually it's consistently doing the little things that's going to really add up, because we've got to work within our own capacity. If we push too hard, then that gives the opposite effect to our body, doesn't it? It gives us unsafety rather than safety. So it's making it work for us, and us as individuals, isn't it? So it sounds like you've learned many of the same lessons that I did, although maybe in a slightly different way, um, and kind of similar to me as well. You know, it sounds like it's really unleashed this curiosity in you. Um, you know where you were sort of learning for the sake of learning, only to find that actually it was helping you which.

Jackie Baxter: 27:50

I absolutely love. So, um, you found all these things that were sort of gradually adding up. Um, how did the sort of trajectory towards that full recovery happen for you? Was it like a light bulb, or was it more of a kind of slow burn? And what did that kind of moment look like for you?

Alisha Braswell: 28:14

Yes, I had a lot of light bulb moments and they were all small light bulb moments. There was not one magic, yes. So when I first learned about the mind, body work and that I'm not broken, it took me a year to fully heal, and so that looked like we were talking about definitely very small consistency every day, just of any of the tools, and I really did allow myself to have time, which is very hard. Of course, there's pressure to go back to work, there's pressure to be in society again. And yes, going back just for a moment to when I first got sick, I realized I had to say no to people, I had to stop, I had to just stop everything, and I even stopped talking to people on the phone because that was too much for me. And so it was a journey from needing to say no and then yes, realizing that it's safe to say no as I heal, like as I healed and began to slowly do things again, knowing that I could say no and that I can listen to my needs, helped me to feel safe. So boundaries, boundaries definitely create safety. So you know, there was lots of up and downs through that journey. There was days that I felt completely awful still after I learned everything I learned. But those days that I felt awful I did the best that I could to create feelings of safety in those days. And so, you know, I didn't Google anymore, I wasn't researching anymore what was happening to me, I wasn't searching anymore for how to fix, and that's a big shift. So I believed as much as I could in the work that I'm not broken. And also, if someone hasn't heard about TMS mind-body work it essentially means that your brain is creating the pain and the pain is completely real. But since the brain is sending the signals through the nervous system, that also means that you're not like nothing is physically wrong. So you know, there was days that I doubted that I definitely had doubts, but I just continued with that safety. Whatever made me feel safe in those really awful days I did.

Alisha Braswell: 31:06

And so, past that, when I started to have more good days, I really reintroduced activities quite slowly and I surrounded those activities with lots of joy and gratitude. So I remember the first time I walked into my garden again, I hadn't, I'm pretty sure I had not walked into my garden in two full years, which it's literally 15 minutes. I mean 15 steps out of my front door. So I started just reintroducing things and teaching myself that I was safe to do them. So I would walk for one minute. I would walk into my garden. One minute, you know, I would walk into my garden, I would. I started to practice yoga literally for five minutes, and so all of these very small reintroducing activities. I just went so slow because I wanted to teach myself that I was safe.

Alisha Braswell: 32:11

And also in that slow reintroduction I let go of pressure and that was a practice of letting go of perfectionism. So you know, in the past I would not allow myself to stop running if I didn't hit the hour mark, like I had to run an hour. And now, you know, I had to walk one minute. There was no had, there was no have tos, I just allowed myself whatever I could do. That day was going to be exciting and I was going to know I was okay doing that thing. And so letting go of that perfectionism and learning to love myself in those moments was also a big piece of the transformation. Because I mean, that's a big shift to know that I'm lovable when I'm laying on the couch or just walking outside. The mindset in the past of I'm lovable because I'm perfect, because I did all of these exercises today. So that was a big piece through the journey.

Alisha Braswell: 33:27

And so then, moving forward through that slow introduction, free introduction, I just and moving forward through that slow introduction, reintroduction, I just that continued to build where you know I would. I went out to a restaurant for the first time again, you know, would see humans again for the first time, and then again, through that, you know, as I would reintroduce something a little bit bigger, like for me, seeing people was hard. So when I first saw people again, I did experience sensations that were uncomfortable in my body when I first did things, but I so that was again the practice of knowing I was safe with those sensations and creating as much feelings of safety around that as I could. And through that continual reinforcement of anything that made me feel safe and calm as I reintroduced everything, slowly the sensation started to fade and so it was. You know, it happened gradually and they slowly. To answer your question of when I was fully healed, you know it was the summertime and it was also, I will say I started to say that I was healed also and I would say maybe I was 70, 80% and I would just say, yeah, I'm good, I'm good to go, I'm okay, just to like have that confidence of I am good.

Alisha Braswell: 35:33

So then I guess one more piece of the final healing stage was that I heard Rob Ensor on. He has a recovery story on Dan Buglio's channel and he is a TMS coach and I saw him for one session. I was like back doing things. One session I was like back doing things.

Alisha Braswell: 36:03

I was, um, you know, pretty well functioning, but I still had a lot of gut issues and I still had this feeling of a detox reaction in my body. That's what I called it. It was like body sensations of burning after I did an activity, of burning after I did an activity. And so I saw him and explained to him where I was at and he basically just reinforced that actually I was safe and those sensations are also from the nervous, like from the brain, and from that time I did not have those detox reactions anymore, and so that is amazing. That is one pretty big light bulb switch. I went on my first date again out in public, like I think the next day, and I just knew I was fine after talking to him and that is when I said I was fully healed talking to him, and that is when I said I was fully healed amazing I I love that like.

Jackie Baxter: 37:07

I just went on a date and I realized it was good, yeah, isn't that such a cool way to kind of celebrate? I suppose, um, and I think, you know, everyone has their own take on this and their own recovery moment story, or whatever what you want to call it, but I think everyone kind of marks it in some way. It's that mountaintop moment, isn't it? You know, you did it, you got there, you know, and it's almost like after that when you maybe certainly for me sort of processed what that actually meant um, but you know, that's, the journey continues, right. Um, but, um, it's, it's such a beautiful moment. Um, so you, you went on your date, um, you announced that. You know, okay, I'm there, I did it. Um, I'm fully recovered. What does life look like now?

Alisha Braswell: 38:01

Yes, now life is very beautiful. I love life pretty much every day. But with that I will say I have ups and downs as a human being and I feel much more accepting of those ups and downs. But that just meaning you know regular life stuff. So now I am a coach, so I coach four days a week mind, body coach and I do love that a lot.

Alisha Braswell: 38:30

I'm grateful, you know, for all of my clients and being able to share what I've learned and I also work on a farm again part time share what I've learned and I also work on a farm, again part-time. So now I just do about usually one day a week which is also really exciting because I did think that I would never farm again and I hike and walk and run and do all of the active things. But I also rest more than I used to. But because I always I say we're humans and we need to rest Because, yeah, just a normal amount, I allow myself to rest if I need to rest. I have boundaries.

Alisha Braswell: 39:13

You know I still do meditations, so you know things have carried through that I learned, but none of them are tools for fixing, they're just. I enjoy meditating. I enjoy the balance of running, walking and resting. I feel very much more in touch with myself. Through this journey. I, like you were mentioning, you know when people ask me to do something I say I'll let you know tomorrow and I take a moment to feel if I want to do that thing.

Alisha Braswell: 39:54

You know so boundaries are huge and also still remind myself that to bring in joy every day you know it's easy to get caught back up in regular life stuff and stress of life, but bringing that joy in is is important.

Jackie Baxter: 40:16

So, yeah, very full balanced life and I'm really grateful for that balance now yeah, I think my, my word is balance, um, because you know I think it was important to me. You know, exercise has always been a really big part of my life and and I couldn't imagine a life where it wasn't and I think for me that was one of the toughest things of the experience was that I didn't know if I would ever be able to climb a mountain again or run or cycle or do all these things that are really important to me, kind of like you were saying that being out in the mountains, farming, these are things that make you you, and so it's really important to me that I'm able to push myself, you know, and really, you know, sort of kick the arse out of myself, you know, doing really intense exercise. You know big stuff and I love doing that and you know, I'm so grateful that I'm able to do that stuff again. But the other side of that coin is that you have to respect your body and that balance. So it's like, yes, climb the mountain but then go sit on the beach, um, you know, and it's having that balance in your life, isn't it, you know? And the same with work sure, have the crazy week but then have the restful weekend kind of thing, and it's yeah, it's respect for the body and that balance in my life that I now have.

Jackie Baxter: 41:44

That I didn't before because I didn't understand the need for it. I didn't, you know, I thought it was invincible, you know, and you sort of do, don't you? Because you don't have any reason to not believe that. So I love what you were saying about the ups and downs of life, because they do. You know life, life happens, stressful things come along and you know what's important is that we have the resilience to deal with them. Um, and the tools and you know that is, I suppose, one of the you could say, gifts or learnings or silver linings maybe, of this experience is that now you are a more resilient person and you have a more resilient nervous system. Um, you know, it's a shame we had to go through this awful experience in order to get there, but it is something to take from it for sure, um. So I suppose, just finally, what would you say either to yourself or to someone else that is sort of still in the middle of that journey? Um, you know, what advice might you have wanted to know?

Alisha Braswell: 42:51

well, first my mind goes to you know, wherever you're at, or looking back at myself through like that decision making time that feels so stressful, I just encourage, whatever route you take, to ask yourself if, if that person the doctor, the decision feels loving and supportive. Because you know, even though one of the doctors that I was with you know I didn't, the actual detox stuff didn't help, that doctor was so loving and supportive and she helped me in a certain way because she was actually loving and supportive. So I just really encouraged, through maybe the confusion of decision making, to just check in with yourself and ask if it feels loving and supportive and then, kind of similarly, I would tell my past self and anyone going through any chronic illness that wherever you're at in the moment, you're completely lovable, like right now, and that was you know. I needed to hear that and start to believe that because no matter what you can or can't do and wherever you're at, you're completely lovable right now yeah, I think that's beautiful advice and you know this.

Jackie Baxter: 44:26

This idea that productivity is tied to worth is like it's the rubbish that society tells us it is not true um you know, you are lovable, whoever you are, whatever you're able to do, and however much you quote unquote, contribute to society, um, and I think, yeah, I, I agree with you. I think that's that's one of the things that that I had to learn and, uh, you know, I think it's, it's a great, a great learning. Yes, alicia, thank you so much. It has been so lovely chatting to you and wonderful hearing your story. Um, I'm so happy that you're able to farm again and you're back up in the hills. Um and um, I will share all of those links that you've mentioned in the show notes as well, so if anyone wants to connect with you or check out any of the things that you've mentioned, then go and check that out below. So, yeah, thank you so much for sharing your story yes, thank you so much for having me.